Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:54 am  

Khlav Kalash wrote:

So there is no point bringing in new rules to legislate against it then. Concussion will continue to happen, it's impossible to prevent, even if no contact at all was brought into the game. What this is a a repsone to only having one company who will insure the players. They will have put an onus on the RFL to reduce head knocks from foul play, accidental clashes are unavoidable.

Concussion will always be a risk when playing high impact sport, through accident or intentional, the University of Boston have been world leaders in the study of CTE, especially within the NFL. Even with their protection it’s still very evident. I personally believe a bunker system would be far more effective then the new rules, which as you say have had to be brought in for insurance issues.

[PopTart]

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:43 am  

Pat Bateman wrote:

Yes exactly, so like I say a bunker system like the NRL have that will catch the ones that are consistently missed throughout a game.

So to me, the only difference between what you say and what the rule says, is that they want to put a benchmark in to apply the penalty/yellow/red.
If you leave it to the bunker they'll just apply the same rule.

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Sun Dec 10, 2023 12:53 pm  

[quote="PopTart"]So to me, the only difference between what you say and what the rule says, is that they want to put a benchmark in to apply the penalty/yellow/red.
If you leave it to the bunker they'll just apply the same rule.[/quote
I was speaking to a current international coach this morning, he said the new rules will change everything, not only the way you defend but also attack and offload. Also it will be a penaltyafon leading to greater fatigue and more careless tackles. For me it will not only ruin the game, but not make that big of an impact on players physical welfare. The reason I said about the bunker is that how many incidents are missed through the game that would be picked up, players showing variable symptoms of concussion missed by a single ref, high shot, off ball stuff etc. You see the bunker pick up loads of concussed players just playing on as they have been missed by the match official but picked up by the bunker and taken off the field.

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:52 pm  

How would you tackle a small player who ducks into a tackle against a forward. It was difficult to avoid head high tackles within the current system so the new limits will make it virtually impossible.

[PopTart]

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:55 pm  

[quote="Pat Bateman"]

Two different issues then.
The bunker is clearly a good idea, but it will only work if they have enough cameras at every game to do that.

I can't remember whether it's a suggestion or a part of this but I'm pretty sure they are putting concussion 'spotters' in place to do what you say.
The clubs should look at this anyway. The physio team shouldn't be watching play, the good ones watch the aftermath of the play.

In terms of the rule change, it's up to the coaches and players to adapt.
For one thing, off loading players have a bit more freedom to keep their head up.

The only adjustment to the rule I would make is to decide when the attacking player has caused the 'illegal tackle'.
If someone runs with their head down and leads with the head into a tackle, that can't be the same as a tackle where the defender has aimed up to dominate the tackle by taking the ball carrier high.

This 'death of the sport emergency call' was sounded when scrums went none competitive and when shoulder charge was outlawed. We survived and adapted then. We'll survive and adapt now.

[PopTart]

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:57 pm  

Scarlet Pimpernell wrote:

How would you tackle a small player who ducks into a tackle against a forward. It was difficult to avoid head high tackles within the current system so the new limits will make it virtually impossible.

That has to be included in the rules for me. If they are small, the defender needs to adapt. If they duck, it's on the attacker.

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:19 pm  

PopTart wrote:

That has to be included in the rules for me. If they are small, the defender needs to adapt. If they duck, it's on the attacker.

This is my biggest issue with the rules. There is little to no responsibility on the attacker to look after themselves (if they are going to follow the Union model). It’s all on the defender.

I watched a couple of games in the Union World Cup (all the paint in the house had dried) and there were 2 straight red cards in games where the ball carrier literally head butted the shoulder of the defender. The result was a red card to the defender who literally didn’t move.

We have to ensure that attacking players are not putting themselves in dangerous positions when making these penalty decisions not just focus solely on the actions of the defender in isolation.

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Sun Dec 10, 2023 7:47 pm  

Something that hasn't been mentioned here is the messing around they're doing with rules changes for the junior game, which I think could be more damaging to the game in the long run.

Where they'll be playing touch rugby till they're 10, I know I wouldn't have started playing for Eastmoor if that was the case when I was 7 and just carried on playing union but it was the amount of times you got the ball, made tackles and was just generally more physical that made it like RU but on steroids. I loved tackling and testing myself physically even at that age.
So basically it seems you won't start to learn how to tackle till you're in the U10s, which is nuts imo. Coaching had my tackling technique pretty nailed down by that age, if not before that tbh, as most half-decent players did. Then they're messing with the 10-meter defensive line which I don't have a major problem with at that age tbh, just means the attacking line will be deeper, as it generally is when you're younger. Under 10s fixtures will be a maximum of nine players per team with a 5-metre retreat by the defensive line; and Under 11s will be a maximum of 11 players per team, again with a 5-metre retreat by the defensive line.
From Under 12s to Under 18s, a trial will be held in at least one member league in 2024 to reduce the retreat by the defensive line to 7 meters, and to minimise knockout cup fixtures – with a view to more widespread introduction from 2025.

Who knows how all this is gonna affect the game in the next generation or two?

[PopTart]

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:04 pm  

jonh wrote:

This is my biggest issue with the rules. There is little to no responsibility on the attacker to look after themselves (if they are going to follow the Union model). It’s all on the defender.

I watched a couple of games in the Union World Cup (all the paint in the house had dried) and there were 2 straight red cards in games where the ball carrier literally head butted the shoulder of the defender. The result was a red card to the defender who literally didn’t move.

We have to ensure that attacking players are not putting themselves in dangerous positions when making these penalty decisions not just focus solely on the actions of the defender in isolation.

I agree with the principle of what you are saying, but the defender has to attempt to miss the players head.
If they go into the tackle upright and they catch the head, it's on them. They need to bend their back more.
Many head high tackles are just lazy defenders.

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:45 pm  

PopTart wrote:

I agree with the principle of what you are saying, but the defender has to attempt to miss the players head.
If they go into the tackle upright and they catch the head, it's on them. They need to bend their back more.
Many head high tackles are just lazy defenders.

The Union ones where where the player was crouching.

The ball carrier had to literally head but the defenders shoulder there was a definitive movement from the ball carrier to throw his head at the opponents shoulder.

The emphasis for the tackle to be safe has to be the responsibility of everyone in the tackle not just the defender.