Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:54 pm  

Pat Bateman wrote:

Having read with intrigue for a couple of days how this thread pans out, I believe it would be a sobering experience for anyone claiming this virus doesn’t exist to spend a few days on their local ICU and witness what this virus actually does. Posters can put all the quantitative data/ meta analysis they like on here, I couldn’t really care if it’s published within the Lancet/elsevier as you can always find research to back any argument. The fact of the matter is that many people have lost loved ones to this virus and this should never be forgotten or overlooked. I know a high percentage of these people already had pre existing Co-morbidities, this again is no comfort to loved ones who this has effected due to the terrible nature in which it kills.

From what I've read on this thread I don't believe anyone is categorically denying the existence of this virus. I think people like myself are concerned with number of failed protective measures implemented by the "experts" that we are suspect are being used as an exploitative power grab to usher in a new order either consciously or sub consciously. I myself am not a denier I would describe my stance as a sceptic.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:05 pm  

coco the fullback wrote:

Absolutely. I aren't even an expert in making my own breakfast ( burnt toast again) Anyone can hold any belief they wish. The thought police have not arrived yet. The level of proof required is totally up to the individual including zero evidence.

Being sceptical and asking questions is always a good position.

However, if you wish for someone else to believe what you do, then you need to match their level of evidence and proof.

Some people believe in ghosts, which is fine, fill your boots. I don't believe in ghosts because I have never seen any evidence that has convinced me of their existence. If someone wants me to believe in ghosts they're going to have to provide my level of proof.

Surely then by this logic the government have to provide proof to the people of the UK that the NHS is on the brink of being overwhelmed by this virus as they keep claiming. All the government do is give diktat by showing a lack of supportive statistics to support most of their claims. I'm sorry but I will not accept a positive PCR test or a mathematical model as factual evidence. Interestingly when substantiated proof was recently requested in Manchester it was found the number of patients in hospital was lower than this time last year!

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:28 pm  

MatthewTrin wrote:

From what I've read on this thread I don't believe anyone is categorically denying the existence of this virus. I think people like myself are concerned with number of failed protective measures implemented by the "experts" that we are suspect are being used as an exploitative power grab to usher in a new order either consciously or sub consciously. I myself am not a denier I would describe my stance as a sceptic.

It was never intended as a dig at anyone specific. I lived and breathed this for 5 months on ICU, where the guidelines were constantly changed to suit What ever PPE was available at the time. I too am a sceptic of the use of masks, as a lot of research around the beginning of the year suggested it is actually very ineffective due to constant touching of the face ie repositioning with hands on face then touching whatever before and after, plus the added fact I believe the blue surgical masks actually have an effective period against surgical diathermy smoke of around 4 minutes, never mind against a virus. What I do agree with is that this whole year has had a catastrophic effect on people’s mental health, and if it means people feel more safe leaving their homes Wearing a mask in order to do what ever is important to them then so be it.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:54 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

It certainly is infectious.
One of my lads pals, early 20's, although not critical by any means, is pretty ill with a positive covid diagnosis.
It really hacks me off to have the folk denying it's existence, looking for bizarre reasons to blame everything from the Chinese to 5G, just so that they can justify not covering their face or washing their hands.

We can argue all day about the government response and there is no absolute right way to control the spread, apart form a coordinated FULL lockdown for a couple of weeks (no movement, shopping, flights, holidays, schools), which would cause it to disappear but, alas, this is never, ever going to be possible but, to deny something that has killed so many people is just bloody sick and despite the endless "have you seen this" or, "what do you think of that" ought to be left to the sci fi fraternity.

I get blamed, no, correction, it's a smear campaign plain and simple, for being a conspiracy theorist or spreading fake news then when I go to the
The centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) which is a national public health institute in the United States. It is a United States federal agency, under the Department of Health and Human Services, and is headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia.. whose main goal is to protect public health and safety through the control and prevention of disease, injury, and disability in the US and internationally.

I am now rubbished in favour of a few anecdotes when I myself have been rubbished for my anecdotes by being asked to back it up with scientific evidence . The difference being my anecdotes are of a positive nature yet you lot give only negative feedback even when faced with bona fide scientific evidence.

I did not say I agreed with it I asked for those who rubbish me to look at it and “pick the bones” out of it. Convince me it is wrong, explaine where I may be misreading something in there But no, you can't be bothered and ignore it in favour of “one of my pals” etc.

I respectfully ask you to look at a quite astonishing piece of evidence from the respected CDC in order for you to make up your own minds and still you are in denial preferring your anecdote to a scientific study and quite beyond belief you compare the CDC to the “sci fi fraternity”. Bizarre reasons,Chinese and 5G when I have mentioned non of that.
And now I am sick for going into the heart of a scientific study.

Non of you can even point, though I have asked many times, to back up your claims that I promote fake news or conspiracy theories or in the case of speed read the first line PopTart that I quote "liars"

Never have I come across such a bunch of hypocrites in my whole life.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:52 pm  

Did anyone watch the heated argument on talkRadio between Dan Wooten and MP Chris Bryant for Rhondda in South Wales? MP Bryant was kicking off claiming that the ICU is currently 75% full compared to this time last year only being half that percentage. The average occupancy rate for intensive care in his area, The Royal Glamorgan Hospital, over the course of last year was 79.8%. https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/ ... -specialty Does anyone know why he is likely lying? Or can you point out why my stats are wrong and Bryant is correct?

Did anyone watch the heated argument on talkRadio between Dan Wooten and MP Chris Bryant for Rhondda in South Wales? MP Bryant was kicking off claiming that the ICU is currently 75% full compared to this time last year only being half that percentage. The average occupancy rate for intensive care in his area, The Royal Glamorgan Hospital, over the course of last year was 79.8%. https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/ ... -specialty Does anyone know why he is likely lying? Or can you point out why my stats are wrong and Bryant is correct?

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:58 pm  

MatthewTrin wrote: Did anyone watch the heated argument on talkRadio between Dan Wooten and MP Chris Bryant for Rhondda in South Wales? MP Bryant was kicking off claiming that the ICU is currently 75% full compared to this time last year only being half that percentage. The average occupancy rate for intensive care in his area, The Royal Glamorgan Hospital, over the course of last year was 79.8%. https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/ ... -specialty Does anyone know why he is most likely lying? Or have I got my stats wrong? Don't hold your breath for an answer on here.

MatthewTrin wrote: Did anyone watch the heated argument on talkRadio between Dan Wooten and MP Chris Bryant for Rhondda in South Wales? MP Bryant was kicking off claiming that the ICU is currently 75% full compared to this time last year only being half that percentage. The average occupancy rate for intensive care in his area, The Royal Glamorgan Hospital, over the course of last year was 79.8%. https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/ ... -specialty Does anyone know why he is most likely lying? Or have I got my stats wrong? Don't hold your breath for an answer on here.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:00 pm  

If people are arguing that Covid-19 is not infectious, then can someone explain, in the simplest terms, why just about every country in the world has decided to impose restrictions that have devastated their economies and will do for a long time to come? It would only take a few to step out of line and say, "we're fine, it's not infectious, come and do business here, send your tourists, buy our currency" and they would become much more powerful.

As for the argument about smartphones, most technological advances have a flipside. The internet is one of the world's greatest inventions. It helps us so much in our daily lives, from having all the information you need at your fingertips to booking holidays and to the amount of streaming entertainment available. But it comes at a cost, because all the loons in the world have a voice and access to an audience, so of course some regulation is required. It has always been the same with all technological advances. The car was invented, so we had to invent speed limits to cut death rates.

Smartphones entertain and inform people. Companies want to monetise that entertainment. Someone invents electricity so someone works out how to make electronic billboards. Not everything is a conspiracy. Sometimes, it is just the checks and balances that make the world keep turning.

But if someone sees everything as some huge masterplan, they will interpret everything in that context.

What I see is people dying and becoming ill from a respiratory illness. Also, I see some people who have been in contact with those ill people also become ill. That is the very definition of infectious. It doesn't seem difficult to grasp.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:09 pm  

Slugger McBatt wrote:

If people are arguing that Covid-19 is not infectious, then can someone explain, in the simplest terms, why just about every country in the world has decided to impose restrictions that have devastated their economies and will do for a long time to come? It would only take a few to step out of line and say, "we're fine, it's not infectious, come and do business here, send your tourists, buy our currency" and they would become much more powerful.

Look through the thread, the subject has been covered extensively.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:37 pm  

Miro wrote:

Look through the thread, the subject has been covered extensively.

I did, and your premise seems to be flawed.

On the one hand, you argue that Covid isn't infectious. On the other, you say that Covid is a capitalist reset, designed for the rich countries to redesign capitalism.

Those two positions are incompatible, as if Covid is not infectious, then there can be no pandemic, so capitalism cannot be reset. It has to be infectious for the window of opportunity to open.

It could only be compatible if either:
a) it is infectious but is a deliberate plot by rich nations.
The problem with this theory is that you would think they would have tipped off the President of the USA and the British Prime Minister.
The Trump issue is particularly problematic, as he has been very dismissive of Covid, so it is in his interests to say he has never had it and never will.
b) it is not infectious but all the people are being misdiagnosed.
This doesn't work at all as an option.

The problem with theories about capitalist leaders engaging in conspiracies is that you are dealing with people who are ruthless and greedy, thus meaning that it would fail as it relies on everyone sticking together in a common cause, despite the greater hardships it might cause some of them, which is in fact the definition of socialism, the exact opposite of capitalism, and thus doomed to fail.

Put simply, what you see will depend on which lens to look through, and you can see anything if you want to see it enough.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:39 pm  

Slugger McBatt wrote:

I did, and your premise seems to be flawed.

On the one hand, you argue that Covid isn't infectious. On the other, you say that Covid is a capitalist reset, designed for the rich countries to redesign capitalism.

Those two positions are incompatible, as if Covid is not infectious, then there can be no pandemic, so capitalism cannot be reset. It has to be infectious for the window of opportunity to open.

It could only be compatible if either:
a) it is infectious but is a deliberate plot by rich nations.
The problem with this theory is that you would think they would have tipped off the President of the USA and the British Prime Minister.
The Trump issue is particularly problematic, as he has been very dismissive of Covid, so it is in his interests to say he has never had it and never will.
b) it is not infectious but all the people are being misdiagnosed.
This doesn't work at all as an option.

The problem with theories about capitalist leaders engaging in conspiracies is that you are dealing with people who are ruthless and greedy, thus meaning that it would fail as it relies on everyone sticking together in a common cause, despite the greater hardships it might cause some of them, which is in fact the definition of socialism, the exact opposite of capitalism, and thus doomed to fail.

Put simply, what you see will depend on which lens to look through, and you can see anything if you want to see it enough.

Thank you for your interest.
I don't believe I have argued that “covid” is not infectious. I may have questioned it very strongly and even argued that it is a version of flu but for me it's not the big issue anymore. The covid debate is a red herring for the smoke screen.
But I never let things go completely if you are referring to the CDC evidence that just shows I am simply keeping abreast of any developments.

I have said that I believe covid (and the argument has already been done as to just what covid is) is a smokescreen for a re set of the world economy as stated by the World Economic Forum, though they use the word “opportunity” again already explained.

Tipped off the UK Prime Minister? No, they are pulling his strings, just like every PM before him. Blair being a prime example.
As for Trump? I have no clue, I stay clear of anything to do with him. But I will ask this, is he a puppet of the deep state? or a thorn in their side. Is he there to play devils advocate? You choose. He is a proven liar so what can you say?
That takes care of a)

b) People are being misdiagnosed. Again look through the thread for details. Fact, not an opinion.

Again, As I clearly stated elsewhere that in my opinion (the re-set) it is doomed to fail. However, not before great damage is done to the world economy. There are opinions that point to communism rather than socialism being the eventual outcome. Hence the need to destroy the middle class, something that is progressing apace as we speak.

You say:
“The problem with theories about capitalist leaders engaging in conspiracie is ….....”

What do you mean theories.......My theory???? Study Event 201. Note the attendees.

You say:
“Put simply, what you see will depend on which lens to look through, and you can see anything if you want to see it enough.”

Hmm. Nice xmas cracker wisdom but not sure I agree with that. In fact I don't agree with that. If that was the case I've been looking at Wakefield Trinity through the wrong lens for a flaming long time.