Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:38 pm  

Miro wrote:

Yes, I have time on my hands today

You ask:
"Are you now saying that only people with guns are dangerous and that a virus that could kill you isn't. ?"

No, we are talking people debating using words, not even threats. That is rather different to a guy online threatening to come around and shoot you with a gun.

So I'm just lucky am I? And most of the people I meet, are they just lucky too?
And all those people online who say the same, are they just lucky?
Maybe myself and all the folk I meet are part of the 99.9% Not surprising we know no one.
Sorry, I can't change that. It's just fact not a viewpoint in any shape or form.

The .1% and their families have my sympathy, of course they do. But even they would be happy that no one in my acquaintance have died. You on the other hand appear to resent that. Strange.

Disclaimer...the above was not copied and pasted.
In future wrencat, any evidence, good or bad, I come across I shall re type it all. Now, I would need "time on my hands".

I dont resent that you are lucky enough not to know anyone suffering or that has died of covid.
I merely suggested that your view on the virus would be somewhat different if you were in my position or, those of others who have been less fortunate than yourself.
Right now you are indeed fortunate and I genuinely hope this remains the same but, your constant crap about the effects of covid, I personally find them to be disrespectful and distasteful but, as I say, keep copying and pasting.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:22 pm  

coco the fullback wrote:

If the government want to instil a level of panic into the population in order to get across the seriousness of the situation, then that's their choice.

Wouldn't that be considered a form of domestic abuse?

coco the fullback wrote:

PCR tests are, as any other diagnostic test, not 100% accurate, but they are pretty good. I have written on here before about mathematical quirks of this and truly random testing meaning that more than half of those who receive a positive result would actually not have the virus. It is very much dependent on prevalence of the virus in the community. A doctor's diagnosis is usually based on a balance of probabilities, based on all the facts and data available. [b]If you have symptoms similar to those experiencing covid-19 and have been in contact with someone with the virus and have a positive test (or more than one) they can say with near 100% certainty that you have the virus[/b].

My other problem with the narrative is this constant use of the term "cases".

Cases based on the PCR test result in general mean nothing to me, even Matt Hancock admitted last month the proportion of people asking for tests who have no symptoms was 25%. But it appears Hancock has full faith in the PCR test "The UK government has drawn up plans to carry out up to 10 million covid-19 tests a day by early next year as part of a huge £100bn (€110bn; $130bn) expansion of its national testing programme, documents seen by The BMJ show."
I'm sure the more you test, the more positive results you will find. Is this planned policy to instill more panic in us? Do they expect millions of us a day to have symptoms next year? Or will we need a test to leave our house even if we don't have symptoms, it would be cheaper for us to just flip a coin instead.

It's about time they stopped using these results to peddle the 'R rate' (made up by modellers) and started talking about the only figure that actually matters the 'H rate' - number of hospital beds available in each region. But then again, is it that the facts around hospitals would not suit their agenda? Just a thought.

As for testing those with symptoms, here lies the problem. On the centres for Disease Control and Prevention website

People with these symptoms may have COVID-19:

Fever or chills
Cough
Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
Fatigue
Muscle or body aches
Headache
New loss of taste or smell
Sore throat
Congestion or runny nose
Nausea or vomiting
Diarrhea

This list does not include all possible symptoms.

I'm sure all those symptoms could relate to many other diseases or illnesses i.e. common cold anyone, feeling under the weather?

"100% certainty they say", really?

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:42 pm  

coco the fullback wrote: Thanks for that. An excellent way to illustrate exactly what I'm getting at. The journal you quote was published in June 2020 by CDC, the research appears to have been carried out on a very early US case of the virus (January 2020). They were investigating the nature of the SARS-CoV-2 including sequencing the whole genome. They were looking at which types of cell support amplification and replication of SARS-CoV-2 and which ones don't. They published their findings so that others could use the information in further studies. A quote: "These results are consistent with previous susceptibility findings for SARS-CoV and suggest other common culture systems, including MDCK, HeLa, HEP-2, MRC-5 cells, and embryonated eggs, are unlikely to support SARS-CoV-2 replication (20–22). In addition, SARS-CoV-2 did not replicate in bat EFK3B cells, which are susceptible to MERS-CoV. Together, the results indicate that SARS-CoV-2 maintains a similar profile to SARS-CoV in terms of susceptible cell lines." Unfortunately, this section seems not to have been picked up. Some fine quote mining and cherry-picking then took place and popped up in an assorted number places on the internet: https://angloamerica101.wordpress.com/2 ... an-beings/ https://ourgreaterdestiny.org/2020/10/a ... ars-cov-2/ https://drtomcowan.com/only-poisoned-mo ... FpbCI6ICJq The power of the internet is huge and many are persuaded by such scandalous headline-grabbing stories. Not many will take the time to check the original source or the background of those promoting the lies. Interestingly, the wording seems to have been copy/pasted in many places. The problem is this was picked up by pseudo-scientists with vested interest and then published on a number of 'blogs' with their own interpretation of what it said. Can you tell me who Sally Fallon Morell is and what are her qualifications? I hope she's not just someone with dubious scientific claims about nutrition trying to sell her books. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A. ... lon_Morell Oh and a doctor: Dr. Tom Cowan (the irony just hurts sometimes) https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/fact ... -1.5506595 Anyway, check out this thread on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/com ... ney_cells/ So, is preventing the spread of this fake, and potentially dangerous, information censorship or are people being protected from such myths? That’s his a*rse handed to him on a plate. Great post.

coco the fullback wrote: Thanks for that. An excellent way to illustrate exactly what I'm getting at. The journal you quote was published in June 2020 by CDC, the research appears to have been carried out on a very early US case of the virus (January 2020). They were investigating the nature of the SARS-CoV-2 including sequencing the whole genome. They were looking at which types of cell support amplification and replication of SARS-CoV-2 and which ones don't. They published their findings so that others could use the information in further studies. A quote: "These results are consistent with previous susceptibility findings for SARS-CoV and suggest other common culture systems, including MDCK, HeLa, HEP-2, MRC-5 cells, and embryonated eggs, are unlikely to support SARS-CoV-2 replication (20–22). In addition, SARS-CoV-2 did not replicate in bat EFK3B cells, which are susceptible to MERS-CoV. Together, the results indicate that SARS-CoV-2 maintains a similar profile to SARS-CoV in terms of susceptible cell lines." Unfortunately, this section seems not to have been picked up. Some fine quote mining and cherry-picking then took place and popped up in an assorted number places on the internet: https://angloamerica101.wordpress.com/2 ... an-beings/ https://ourgreaterdestiny.org/2020/10/a ... ars-cov-2/ https://drtomcowan.com/only-poisoned-mo ... FpbCI6ICJq The power of the internet is huge and many are persuaded by such scandalous headline-grabbing stories. Not many will take the time to check the original source or the background of those promoting the lies. Interestingly, the wording seems to have been copy/pasted in many places. The problem is this was picked up by pseudo-scientists with vested interest and then published on a number of 'blogs' with their own interpretation of what it said. Can you tell me who Sally Fallon Morell is and what are her qualifications? I hope she's not just someone with dubious scientific claims about nutrition trying to sell her books. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A. ... lon_Morell Oh and a doctor: Dr. Tom Cowan (the irony just hurts sometimes) https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/fact ... -1.5506595 Anyway, check out this thread on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/com ... ney_cells/ So, is preventing the spread of this fake, and potentially dangerous, information censorship or are people being protected from such myths? That’s his a*rse handed to him on a plate. Great post.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:48 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I dont resent that you are lucky enough not to know anyone suffering or that has died of covid.
I merely suggested that your view on the virus would be somewhat different if you were in my position or, those of others who have been less fortunate than yourself.
Right now you are indeed fortunate and I genuinely hope this remains the same but, your constant crap about the effects of covid, I personally find them to be disrespectful and distasteful but, as I say, keep copying and pasting.

Yes I am fortunate to be in the 99.9% but then so is 99.9% of 68,000,000 people.

Had I been in the .1% I can assure you I still would not want all this restrictive crap om my account.

Do you not see either, that the restrictions are totaly dis-proportionate to the effect covid is having. Does not the figure of 99.9% have any meaning to you?

You say I am disrespectful to the tiny percentage of affected people but equally you are being dis respectable to those commuting suicide, those with mental health problems with no support, well, a damn site less than before this crap. There will be a massive spike in cancers due to a delay in diagnosis or lack of regular treatment. People who had jobs that have now gone. How will that affect them? Jobs are not all about money but not being able to pay the rent or mortgage can lead to all kinds of anxiety within families. How do you think the aged are coping not being able to get a hug from a loved one, or dying alone with no relatives to comfort them. Children and women being abused in the home because they have no where to go is massively on the increase. All this and more. People in the streets shuffling along in their masks and visors scared witless by the constant updating of death or infection figures thanks to your fellow enablers in the BBC.

On May 23rd the German newspaper Das Bild titled: “Dramatic consequences of the Corona-Measures: 52,000 Cancer Ops delayed.”

Answer these wrencat.

How many children should starve in order to make you feel safe? Food banks over run.

How many families must go bankrupt in order to make you feel safe.

How many business owners should lose everything they have worked for in order to make you feel safe?

How many people have to lose their jobs and their life savings in order to make you feel safe?

How many school leavers should have no work to go to in order to make you feel safe?

Come on wrencat come up with the number of people that you think should surrender their lives and livelihoods for YOUR feelings and YOUR safety.

AND YOU CALL MY VIEWS TO END ALL THIS "DISRESPECTFUL AND DISTASTEFUL "
PLEASE SHOW SOME RESPECT YOURSELF FOR ALL THE ABOVE.

UNBELIEVABLE.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:22 pm  

Billy Butcher wrote:

That’s his a*rse handed to him on a plate.

Great post.

Wonderful post BB, and your first one too. Very impressed with your deep insight into all aspects of this long running argument. Amazing how you dissected all the information contained in the post and presented them on the forum so articulately.
Well done too on creating an account in order to express your deep feelings on the subject so eloquently.

For or against I look forward to reading your fascinating analyses in future posts.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:32 pm  

MatthewTrin wrote:

Wouldn't that be considered a form of domestic abuse?

My other problem with the narrative is this constant use of the term "cases".

Cases based on the PCR test result in general mean nothing to me, even Matt Hancock admitted last month the proportion of people asking for tests who have no symptoms was 25%. But it appears Hancock has full faith in the PCR test "The UK government has drawn up plans to carry out up to 10 million covid-19 tests a day by early next year as part of a huge £100bn (€110bn; $130bn) expansion of its national testing programme, documents seen by The BMJ show."
I'm sure the more you test, the more positive results you will find. Is this planned policy to instill more panic in us? Do they expect millions of us a day to have symptoms next year? Or will we need a test to leave our house even if we don't have symptoms, it would be cheaper for us to just flip a coin instead.

It's about time they stopped using these results to peddle the 'R rate' (made up by modellers) and started talking about the only figure that actually matters the 'H rate' - number of hospital beds available in each region. But then again, is it that the facts around hospitals would not suit their agenda? Just a thought.

As for testing those with symptoms, here lies the problem. On the centres for Disease Control and Prevention website

People with these symptoms may have COVID-19:

Fever or chills
Cough
Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
Fatigue
Muscle or body aches
Headache
New loss of taste or smell
Sore throat
Congestion or runny nose
Nausea or vomiting
Diarrhea

This list does not include all possible symptoms.

I'm sure all those symptoms could relate to many other diseases or illnesses i.e. common cold anyone, feeling under the weather?

"100% certainty they say", really?

Wouldn't that be considered a form of domestic abuse?

If they terrorize the populace then not only is it domestic abuse but terrorism.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:46 pm  

Miro wrote:

Wonderful post BB, and your first one too. Very impressed with your deep insight into all aspects of this long running argument. Amazing how you dissected all the information contained in the post and presented them on the forum so articulately.
Well done too on creating an account in order to express your deep feelings on the subject so eloquently.

For or against I look forward to reading your fascinating analyses in future posts.

I don’t and never will debate with people who’ve allowed themselves to be brainwashed. Utterly pointless.

Please carry on embarrassing yourself.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:31 pm  

Billy Butcher wrote:

I don’t and never will debate with people who’ve allowed themselves to be brainwashed. Utterly pointless.
:

I don't blame you. However, I am here should you wish to debate.

I must warn you though I haven't been brainwashed into carrying hand sanitizer, , wearing a mask, wearing a visor, keeping 2 metres from fellow human beings, restricting my gatherings to 6 or less, clapping in the street every thursday, painting rainbows, queuing in the street, not hugging, not shaking hands, not kissing, Hanging onto Matt and Boris's every word, watching rugby played in empty stadiums, following arrows, keeping to one way systems, quarantining, using the word "bubble" , staying home, staying safe, plastering posters all around my premises, erecting screens, painting arrows, instructing clients where to stand or sit, etc. etc.etc. etc.etc. etc.etc. etc.etc. etc.

Apart from all that, yeah, I think might have been brainwashed

Please note, the list may added to
For wrencat, I copied and pasted all those etc. etc.etc. etc.etc. etc.etc. etc.etc. etc.'s

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:51 am  

And in further news, news you may or may not see on the BBC. Here we have some copy and pasting wrencat of reports doing the rounds .And to think of the crap I've faced on here for advocating the uselessness of the lockdowns. But Hey Ho. The World Health Organization (WHO) announced Sunday that it no longer recommends economic lockdowns to fight the novel coronavirus, effectively reversing its position. The WHO has never acknowledged a change in policy on the subject, but its envoy now says that complete economic lockdowns, like the kind occasionally proposed by American lawmakers unsatisfied with the pandemic’s trajectory in the United States, have dire economic consequences and could be responsible for increasing poverty. “Lockdowns just have one consequence that you must never ever belittle, and that is making poor people an awful lot poorer,” Dr. Nabarro remarked, noting that lockdowns don’t simply affect domestic economic production, but also tourism and global trade. Earlier this week, thousands of medical health experts signed their names to a petition calling for the end of coronavirus lockdowns, citing the “irreparable damage” they’ve caused. "As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists, we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection,” read the petition, known as the Great Barrington Declaration. "Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health." In the United States, lockdowns have been tied to increased thoughts of suicide from children, a surge in drug overdoses, an uptick in domestic violence, and a study conducted in May concluded that stress and anxiety from lockdowns could destroy seven times the years of life that lockdowns potentially save. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... -lockdowns WATCH: Dr David Nabarro, the WHO's Special Envoy on Covid-19, tells Andrew Neil: 'We really do appeal to all world leaders: stop using lockdown as your primary control method'. Watch the full interview here: https://t.co/XLdaedsKVS #SpectatorTV @afneil | @davidnabarro pic.twitter.com/1M4xf3VnXQ https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... r-BB19TBUo https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavir ... 7731c3da74

And in further news, news you may or may not see on the BBC. Here we have some copy and pasting wrencat of reports doing the rounds .And to think of the crap I've faced on here for advocating the uselessness of the lockdowns. But Hey Ho. The World Health Organization (WHO) announced Sunday that it no longer recommends economic lockdowns to fight the novel coronavirus, effectively reversing its position. The WHO has never acknowledged a change in policy on the subject, but its envoy now says that complete economic lockdowns, like the kind occasionally proposed by American lawmakers unsatisfied with the pandemic’s trajectory in the United States, have dire economic consequences and could be responsible for increasing poverty. “Lockdowns just have one consequence that you must never ever belittle, and that is making poor people an awful lot poorer,” Dr. Nabarro remarked, noting that lockdowns don’t simply affect domestic economic production, but also tourism and global trade. Earlier this week, thousands of medical health experts signed their names to a petition calling for the end of coronavirus lockdowns, citing the “irreparable damage” they’ve caused. "As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists, we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection,” read the petition, known as the Great Barrington Declaration. "Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health." In the United States, lockdowns have been tied to increased thoughts of suicide from children, a surge in drug overdoses, an uptick in domestic violence, and a study conducted in May concluded that stress and anxiety from lockdowns could destroy seven times the years of life that lockdowns potentially save. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... -lockdowns WATCH: Dr David Nabarro, the WHO's Special Envoy on Covid-19, tells Andrew Neil: 'We really do appeal to all world leaders: stop using lockdown as your primary control method'. Watch the full interview here: https://t.co/XLdaedsKVS #SpectatorTV @afneil | @davidnabarro pic.twitter.com/1M4xf3VnXQ https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... r-BB19TBUo https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavir ... 7731c3da74

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:04 am  

Miro wrote:

I don't blame you. However, I am here should you wish to debate.

I must warn you though I haven't been brainwashed into carrying hand sanitizer, , wearing a mask, wearing a visor, keeping 2 metres from fellow human beings, restricting my gatherings to 6 or less, clapping in the street every thursday, painting rainbows, queuing in the street, not hugging, not shaking hands, not kissing, Hanging onto Matt and Boris's every word, watching rugby played in empty stadiums, following arrows, keeping to one way systems, quarantining, using the word "bubble" , staying home, staying safe, plastering posters all around my premises, erecting screens, painting arrows, instructing clients where to stand or sit, etc. etc.etc. etc.etc. etc.etc. etc.etc. etc.

Apart from all that, yeah, I think might have been brainwashed

Please note, the list may added to
For wrencat, I copied and pasted all those etc. etc.etc. etc.etc. etc.etc. etc.etc. etc.'s

I don't recall making a comment on this thread before now but I realise I must have because every time a post is made it flags up in the corner of my screen, maybe I might have made a teeny one earlier when a simplistic view was all it took instead of a page and a half lecture on things we don't really need to know, however I digress I can remember you in the late fifties and the early part of the sixties when armed with your sandwich board planted firmly on your shoulders along with your banner revealing that the world is nigh used to walk up and down Kirkgate to as far as the ground at Bellevue peddling your beliefs, and I say that without a hint of sarcasm, and it leads me to think that it must be so much easier for you now with the social media outlets available that you can now reach out to thousands upon thousands of people to instill your beliefs on, good old days don't apply here