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Re: Tautai : Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:06 pm  
vastman wrote:
For the record

1: Dan Sarginson - Born 26 May 1993 (age 25) Perth, Western Australia

2: Thomas Leuluai NZ

3: Taulima Tautai AUS/NZ

4: Willie Isa AUS/NZ

5: Morgan Escare FRENCH

6: Romain Navarrete FRENCH

7: Gabe Hamlin AUSTRALIAN

That's 7 then, or if I'm being super generous 6 like everyone else. 8)

Don't know how I got 5, I had counted all them except Sarginson who I'd forgotten he was born in Aus. His southern accent confused me. :)
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Re: Tautai : Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:11 pm  
Rogues Gallery wrote:
Sarginson, played for England, Hamlin qualifies for England (mother is from Blackpool) Escare and Navarette are EU citizens and so a right to play here.

However, I wasn't having a go at Wakefield. Check my posts on other sites and I have been asking for a reduction in the quota rules for years. Personally I would like it down to two but accept that you can't do that overnight so maybe four would be realistic.
Hull for example don't run their own academy team and have no reserve grade, but are maxed out on quota players.

All teams need to run reserve grade.

I would also scrap the scholarship and keep players with their community clubs until they are seventeen but have "town teams" at that age group.

As for producing players, I think every Superleague team bar Cas, Hull and Saints have at least one player who has come through the Wigan academy.

Twenty players played in the first team in 2018 who had come through an academy system that has appeared in ten of the last eleven Grand Finals, winning nine.

Nore emphasis has to be put on developing our own talent than bringing in expensive often overrated quota players.

If you'd have said this straight away I doubt nobody would disagree that much but the first post seemed like you were just calling out Trinity for having there non fed trained/quota spots filled, ftr we've had the same guys all this year that will be here next year as it is now.

Does Hamlin count as a non-fed trained player?
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Re: Tautai : Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:38 am  
Rogues Gallery wrote:
Sarginson, played for England, Hamlin qualifies for England (mother is from Blackpool) Escare and Navarette are EU citizens and so a right to play here.

However, I wasn't having a go at Wakefield. Check my posts on other sites and I have been asking for a reduction in the quota rules for years. Personally I would like it down to two but accept that you can't do that overnight so maybe four would be realistic.
Hull for example don't run their own academy team and have no reserve grade, but are maxed out on quota players.

All teams need to run reserve grade.

I would also scrap the scholarship and keep players with their community clubs until they are seventeen but have "town teams" at that age group.

As for producing players, I think every Superleague team bar Cas, Hull and Saints have at least one player who has come through the Wigan academy.

Twenty players played in the first team in 2018 who had come through an academy system that has appeared in ten of the last eleven Grand Finals, winning nine.

Nore emphasis has to be put on developing our own talent than bringing in expensive often overrated quota players.


Come off it, that sentence alone totally negates your original and clearly ludicrous post - put it any way you want those players were not created in Wigan, or the north west, or the north or even England - so just apologise for the original needles slur and we can all move on.
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Re: Tautai : Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:50 am  
vastman wrote:
Come off it, that sentence alone totally negates your original and clearly ludicrous post - put it any way you want those players were not created in Wigan, or the north west, or the north or even England - so just apologise for the original needles slur and we can all move on.


Indeed. They ALL have a right to play here. Not just the French.
And I think Miller could qualify for England on the Rangi rule if he wanted to. Doesn't make him English.
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Re: Tautai : Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:31 am  
Rogues Gallery wrote:
Sarginson, played for England, Hamlin qualifies for England (mother is from Blackpool) Escare and Navarette are EU citizens and so a right to play here.

However, I wasn't having a go at Wakefield. Check my posts on other sites and I have been asking for a reduction in the quota rules for years. Personally I would like it down to two but accept that you can't do that overnight so maybe four would be realistic.
Hull for example don't run their own academy team and have no reserve grade, but are maxed out on quota players.

All teams need to run reserve grade.

I would also scrap the scholarship and keep players with their community clubs until they are seventeen but have "town teams" at that age group.

As for producing players, I think every Superleague team bar Cas, Hull and Saints have at least one player who has come through the Wigan academy.

Twenty players played in the first team in 2018 who had come through an academy system that has appeared in ten of the last eleven Grand Finals, winning nine.

Nore emphasis has to be put on developing our own talent than bringing in expensive often overrated quota players.


This issue is massive. Service area was fantastic when I was playing junior rugby. Scholarships give kids a tracksuit and dreams of stardom far too young.

As much as I like your posts though Rogues about academies etc, I think constantly coming on other clubs forums slating their youth products etc isn't good. The clubs are playing within the rules and I think they are just the right amount without forcing teams to play kids that will ultimately dilute the competition. Wakey have made great progress bringing young talent through in my opinion

Will be interesting to see how many kids come through now Wane has gone at Wigan
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Re: Tautai : Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:42 pm  
thepimp007 wrote:
This issue is massive. Service area was fantastic when I was playing junior rugby. Scholarships give kids a tracksuit and dreams of stardom far too young.

As much as I like your posts though Rogues about academies etc, I think constantly coming on other clubs forums slating their youth products etc isn't good. The clubs are playing within the rules and I think they are just the right amount without forcing teams to play kids that will ultimately dilute the competition. Wakey have made great progress bringing young talent through in my opinion

Will be interesting to see how many kids come through now Wane has gone at Wigan


I dont think that Wane leaving will affect their junior set up.
They have plenty of resource to hoover up as much young talent as they want and the systems that they have in place will ensure continuity "post Wane".
Much like the Wakefield area, Wigan is a Rugby League place and even with Wigan Athletic on the scent, Wigan is still very much a rugby league town.
They have the huge advantage of being able to throw "substantial" money at up and coming players and this alone will ensure that they are not short of juniors "coming through their system".
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Re: Tautai : Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:59 pm  
wrencat1873 wrote:
I dont think that Wane leaving will affect their junior set up.
They have plenty of resource to hoover up as much young talent as they want and the systems that they have in place will ensure continuity "post Wane".
Much like the Wakefield area, Wigan is a Rugby League place and even with Wigan Athletic on the scent, Wigan is still very much a rugby league town.
They have the huge advantage of being able to throw "substantial" money at up and coming players and this alone will ensure that they are not short of juniors "coming through their system".

I suppose not playing by the rules, allegedly :wink: , gives clubs like Wigan an even better chance of snapping up who they want , their scouts come to watch West Yorkshire youngsters just to rub their arrogance in a bit more.
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Re: Tautai : Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:48 am  
Big lads mate wrote:
I suppose not playing by the rules, allegedly :wink: , gives clubs like Wigan an even better chance of snapping up who they want , their scouts come to watch West Yorkshire youngsters just to rub their arrogance in a bit more.


Wigan have scouts who are based in Yorkshire, Cumberland, Darn Sarf etc etc. They have recently signed about six lads from Wales.
What's the problem with that?

They know if they're good enough they'll get a chance, then it's up to them. I think it's something like fifty whilst Wane has been coach. It's not always about the money, the likes on Burgess, Manfredi, Sutton, Davies, Marshall etc etc were on very low salaries at the start of their careers.

I'll go back to my original point. We need more young players coming through, having seven quota players (or non fed) whichever way you want it is too many.
Having no reserve grade is a BIG problem. Kids are leaving the game in droves because the pathway to 1st team is limited.

End of sermon.

ps there are a few people on here who know me personally and they will know what I said was NOT aimed solely at Wakefield but at the game as a whole. I've had this discussion with them in the Connie Club many times over the years.
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Re: Tautai : Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:11 pm  
Rogues Gallery wrote:
Wigan have scouts who are based in Yorkshire, Cumberland, Darn Sarf etc etc. They have recently signed about six lads from Wales.
What's the problem with that?

They know if they're good enough they'll get a chance, then it's up to them. I think it's something like fifty whilst Wane has been coach. It's not always about the money, the likes on Burgess, Manfredi, Sutton, Davies, Marshall etc etc were on very low salaries at the start of their careers.

I'll go back to my original point. We need more young players coming through, having seven quota players (or non fed) whichever way you want it is too many.
Having no reserve grade is a BIG problem. Kids are leaving the game in droves because the pathway to 1st team is limited.

End of sermon.

ps there are a few people on here who know me personally and they will know what I said was NOT aimed solely at Wakefield but at the game as a whole. I've had this discussion with them in the Connie Club many times over the years.
when you get it shoved down your throat by the media on how Wigan produce the young talent it does kind of grate on you knowing that some talent has been enticed due to the money from else where,

I'll give a good example Callum Field came to Stanley Rangers cracking player who came to us from a Selby team as he needed to play in a higher league, reading his profile there's no info to his background only Wigan St Pats ARLFC has a mention, so has he spent some time playing for their first team or are trying to hide his Wakefield background
https://www.wiganwarriors.com/teams/fir ... llum-field

I don't doubt that you have a great set up which is ideal start for a young career and I wish all young ones the best the can achieve but there has to be some sort of recognition to where they do start their career
Rogues Gallery wrote:
Wigan have scouts who are based in Yorkshire, Cumberland, Darn Sarf etc etc. They have recently signed about six lads from Wales.
What's the problem with that?

They know if they're good enough they'll get a chance, then it's up to them. I think it's something like fifty whilst Wane has been coach. It's not always about the money, the likes on Burgess, Manfredi, Sutton, Davies, Marshall etc etc were on very low salaries at the start of their careers.

I'll go back to my original point. We need more young players coming through, having seven quota players (or non fed) whichever way you want it is too many.
Having no reserve grade is a BIG problem. Kids are leaving the game in droves because the pathway to 1st team is limited.

End of sermon.

ps there are a few people on here who know me personally and they will know what I said was NOT aimed solely at Wakefield but at the game as a whole. I've had this discussion with them in the Connie Club many times over the years.
when you get it shoved down your throat by the media on how Wigan produce the young talent it does kind of grate on you knowing that some talent has been enticed due to the money from else where,

I'll give a good example Callum Field came to Stanley Rangers cracking player who came to us from a Selby team as he needed to play in a higher league, reading his profile there's no info to his background only Wigan St Pats ARLFC has a mention, so has he spent some time playing for their first team or are trying to hide his Wakefield background
https://www.wiganwarriors.com/teams/fir ... llum-field

I don't doubt that you have a great set up which is ideal start for a young career and I wish all young ones the best the can achieve but there has to be some sort of recognition to where they do start their career
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Re: Tautai : Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:29 pm  
Big lads mate wrote:
I suppose not playing by the rules, allegedly :wink: , gives clubs like Wigan an even better chance of snapping up who they want , their scouts come to watch West Yorkshire youngsters just to rub their arrogance in a bit more.


I've seen this firsthand - mysterious figure in a Wigan overcoat lurking in the bushes at a junior game, then approaching parents in the car park; that said, Wigan were not the only example.

I guess there's always a way to make this look legit - but it seems at least morally dubious - as does later white-washing that players origins and claiming them as a youth product of your own club.
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