Re: Toronto rejected. : Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:29 am  

I've nothing against Toronto or Ottowa playing rugby league.
But, to develop it, a North America League has to be created first and proven to be successful before any expansion takes place.
For example, a comp with our teams and theirs.
Then, we could consider allowing teams to enter our structure.
As has been mentioned, there are plenty of new amateur RL teams now across the UK - even as far south as Devon.
We should be looking to expand the game professionally in the UK first before we look that far afield.
Can you imagine the NRL having a team in it that was a 9hr flight away from Australia?

Re: Toronto rejected. : Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:34 am  

jonh wrote:

Ottawa Beavers have better training facilities than Wakefield Trinity.

They have access to 2 grounds one which they own and one which they rent.

The one they rent is at the local University and whilst not SL standard is would certainly be superior to some lower division clubs.

They have a thriving youth set up.

The ground they own pretty much funds the club because of the events that they are able to hold there.

There is a thriving rugby community in Quebec which has been established since the 1950’s.

Until the Wolfpack came along that was exclusively Union, but now it is also becoming League and there is 0 League/union bias over there.

Toronto failing is sad in my opinion because it was a fantastic opportunity, however the right call because the ownership and model was wrong.

Hopefully Ottawa Aces learn from that, I know they are working closely with Ottawa Beavers and that existing support in the region.

You would argue black is white against one of my posts, it’s what you do. It’s fair enough but you don’t know what you are talking about on this one and you are wrong.

There are around 13000 juniors playing rugby in Quebec Region. It’s not a bad start especially when you consider Trinity are surviving on gates of around 5000/match (roughly) and a core from that of probably about 4000 home fans.

You need to cool your jets a little and think before you post sometimes, just like on the Bowes thread, as your desire to give it the big I am clearly clouds your judgement, and makes you look more than a bit daft when you don’t know the facts surrounding your own club because you want to jump on someone, and then when you can look a bit silly you change the goal posts rather than just put your hand up and say you were wrong.

You mention 13000 youngsters playing rugby in Quebec, which is great.
How many of these have played or are playing RL ?

You suggest a lack of bias over there but, it certainly exists everywhere else and perhaps the current lack of antipathy towards RL is because it isn't being played over there yet ?

Re: Toronto rejected. : Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:40 am  

jonh wrote:

Ottawa Beavers have better training facilities than Wakefield Trinity.

They have access to 2 grounds one which they own and one which they rent.

The one they rent is at the local University and whilst not SL standard is would certainly be superior to some lower division clubs.

They have a thriving youth set up.

The ground they own pretty much funds the club because of the events that they are able to hold there.

There is a thriving rugby community in Quebec which has been established since the 1950’s.

Until the Wolfpack came along that was exclusively Union, but now it is also becoming League and there is 0 League/union bias over there.

Toronto failing is sad in my opinion because it was a fantastic opportunity, however the right call because the ownership and model was wrong.

Hopefully Ottawa Aces learn from that, I know they are working closely with Ottawa Beavers and that existing support in the region.

You would argue black is white against one of my posts, it’s what you do. It’s fair enough but you don’t know what you are talking about on this one and you are wrong.

There are around 13000 juniors playing rugby in Quebec Region. It’s not a bad start especially when you consider Trinity are surviving on gates of around 5000/match (roughly) and a core from that of probably about 4000 home fans.

You need to cool your jets a little and think before you post sometimes, just like on the Bowes thread, as your desire to give it the big I am clearly clouds your judgement, and makes you look more than a bit daft when you don’t know the facts surrounding your own club because you want to jump on someone, and then when you can look a bit silly you change the goal posts rather than just put your hand up and say you were wrong.

Are you surprised by that?
I would say that there are some amateur teams with better facilities.
I suppose its one reason why we are having (hopefully) a new ground.

Re: Toronto rejected. : Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:12 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You mention 13000 youngsters playing rugby in Quebec, which is great.
How many of these have played or are playing RL ?

You suggest a lack of bias over there but, it certainly exists everywhere else and perhaps the current lack of antipathy towards RL is because it isn't being played over there yet ?

Pre Toronto there were a few teams playing League mainly in training, post Toronto they have been playing informally and training using league methods more and also playing informally under League rules. This is without much of a proactive approach from Toronto in relation to engagement.

In North America both USA and Canada the administrators play and support both codes, they have duel internationals who play for both the union and league sides.

They don’t have the baggage of history.

People like David Niu played for both the USA league and union teams at the same time, and also worked for both in relation to developing and promoting the game over there. He set up both their Rugby Super League (union) comp and also the domestic American League, using players from both comps to play.

In the main for them it’s simple, rugby is rugby.

Re: Toronto rejected. : Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:25 am  

jonh wrote:

Pre Toronto there were a few teams playing League mainly in training, post Toronto they have been playing informally and training using league methods more and also playing informally under League rules. This is without much of a proactive approach from Toronto in relation to engagement.

In North America both USA and Canada the administrators play and support both codes, they have duel internationals who play for both the union and league sides.

They don’t have the baggage of history.

In the main for them it’s simple, rugby is rugby.

I dont want to pee on your bonfire here but, my lad played Union at school, club and district and they played a version of RL, as part of their training, to try and help their ruck speed in offence.
It had absolutely nothing to do with them "accepting the game", in fact, the opposite would be true.
However, they did feel that it benefited their speed.

Honestly, I dont see a connection and Union as a sport will not yield to RL - EVER

As an anecdote, we went over to Toulouse on a lads weekend and the local sports pub actually refused to show RL as they were a "Union" pub.
Also Union now paying RL playing schools to switch from RL to Union.

Sorry mate, it may look nice and friendly at the moment but, the reality is something very different.
To believe that they dont try to strangle our game is naïve, sorry

Re: Toronto rejected. : Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:56 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I dont want to pee on your bonfire here but, my lad played Union at school, club and district and they played a version of RL, as part of their training, to try and help their ruck speed in offence.
It had absolutely nothing to do with them "accepting the game", in fact, the opposite would be true.
However, they did feel that it benefited their speed.

Honestly, I dont see a connection and Union as a sport will not yield to RL - EVER

As an anecdote, we went over to Toulouse on a lads weekend and the local sports pub actually refused to show RL as they were a "Union" pub.
Also Union now paying RL playing schools to switch from RL to Union.

Sorry mate, it may look nice and friendly at the moment but, the reality is something very different.
To believe that they dont try to strangle our game is naïve, sorry

What’s that got to do with Canada?

France had one of the biggest attacks on the 13 man code ever under the Vicci government the sport is still in conflict in France backed covertly by the government.

There is bags of history and prejudice in England and France towards the 13 man code.

I too played union at school, county and professionally and that’s how I ended up out there (because I was rubbish).

I’m also aware of what is happening in schools in England as I’ve been a rugby league community club coach for the last 8 years and it saddens me to see how the game is being treated in schools.

They don’t have the history of conflict between the codes in Canada, it doesn’t exist, there was still the odd person who was against League but these tended to be the ex Pats not the locals.

Re: Toronto rejected. : Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:38 pm  

jonh wrote:

What’s that got to do with Canada?

France had one of the biggest attacks on the 13 man code ever under the Vicci government the sport is still in conflict in France backed covertly by the government.

There is bags of history and prejudice in England and France towards the 13 man code.

I too played union at school, county and professionally and that’s how I ended up out there (because I was rubbish).

I’m also aware of what is happening in schools in England as I’ve been a rugby league community club coach for the last 8 years and it saddens me to see how the game is being treated in schools.

They don’t have the history of conflict between the codes in Canada, it doesn’t exist, there was still the odd person who was against League but these tended to be the ex Pats not the locals.

Good to hear mate, lets hope that this doesnt change if/when RL starts to become any kind of "threat".

Re: Toronto rejected. : Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:55 pm  

[quote="Willzay"]Let’s say a club takes around 21 players to Toronto. Plus coaching and medical staff, so total maybe around 30. Plus I imagine taking basic training equipment like tackle bags. Plus the hotel costs. Plus the transport from the airport to the hotel, the hotel to the stadium etc.

Pretty costly exercise for a game of rugby?

That’s excluding the current COVID situation. Castleford had 12 players become infected after sitting on the m62 for three hours, what’s a plane to Canada going to do?[/quote]

Yep...that's simply not going to fly

I'll get my coat ......

Re: Toronto rejected. : Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:53 pm  

Voted to go with a 12 team league next year, applications invited frorm those clubs interested.

Re: Toronto rejected. : Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:04 pm  

Sacred Cow wrote:

Voted to go with a 12 team league next year, applications invited frorm those clubs interested.

Remaining Super League fixtures

Friday, 6 November (both at Emerald Headingley): 5.30pm - Wakefield Trinity vs Salford Red Devils; 7.45pm - Wigan Warriors vs Huddersfield Giants.

Our season ends on Friday. I wonder if we and other bottom clubs loose out financially?