Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:53 am  

Miro wrote:

Maybe for the same reasons the vast majority of our serious manufacturing industries were sold off and shifted abroad.
Despite protests and strikes, letters to the editor, harranging your MP, sit down protests, marches in support of workers losing their jobs it all went ahead with, in many or most cases, government approval.
When the people of South Wales lost Burberry and York a good proportion of it's century old chocolate industry to Poland and even Wakefield losing Bombardier to Spain no one in power appeared to give a hoot. The list is endless and no, we are not talking lame duck industries here, they still thrive, just not here.

The USA has made millions unemployed by outsourcing it's manufacturing to China all with devestating results for ordinary Americans.

One of the saddest cases was Paisley in Scotland (see the BBC documentary “The Town That Thread Built.”) Remember too (those old enough) when Whitby fishing trawlers were being cut up for scrap back in the 70s. Nothing to do with no fish, nothing to do with being un-economical, just rules from above.

So anyone who comes on here wringing their hands and saying “why would they do that?” or worse, “they wouldn't do that.” or Coco's question above, think again. You can bet your life someone somewhere will be picking up the slack and increasing their bottom line, but it aint us.

I think that you are confusing the actions taken by "EVERY" government with the capitalist ideals of "some".

Having said that, many of the changes in manufacturing are down to people like you and I, who buy stuff because its cheap, perhaps without enough thought as to why it's cheap.

It's a whole different argument, please dont confuse the two issues.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:45 am  

Miro wrote:

But you appear to ignore or have no answer to this from MattewTrin:

My reply is simple if you are concerned about the health service being over run then join a march/petition to ban all people from requesting asylum while you're at it, you could even demand a ban on smoking (78,000 related deaths per year), ban fast food, ban alcohol, ban all contact sports. Why should we prioritise treating the lives of those groups of people who are putting strain on the NHS but not those who might get C19 who've chosen to get on with their lives. Where does the madness end?

Answer what?
It's some kind of rhetorical rant which makes little sense.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:19 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I think that you are confusing the actions taken by "EVERY" government with the capitalist ideals of "some".

Having said that, many of the changes in manufacturing are down to people like you and I, who buy stuff because its cheap, perhaps without enough thought as to why it's cheap.

It's a whole different argument, please dont confuse the two issues.

Not so I, I always buy home produced stuff if possible. Only yesterday I purchased a vacuum cleaner UK made.
If I have to order online from say PC World, I always have the goods delivered to the store just to help oil the wheels down on Cathedral walk. Every little bit helps to keep stores open.

To say it's a WHOLE different argument is naive to say the least. A factor yes but not in a million years "wholly different. "
Are you saying we stopped buying York chocolate because we found cheaper chocolate from Poland? Or fish?

I worked for a very good company and it was taken over by a lesser (success wise) company and shut down. Know why? So the chairman or managing director, who had two years to run before retirement wanted the balance sheet to look good in his favour. and his bonus.
A year later my firm was gone, amalgamated, the land sold. He retired on a fat bonus and now the amalgamation and parent firm is dead and gone too. yet the industry we served is still thriving. We were specialists in our field, nothing to do with cost, but that didn't matter to the morally corrupt, self serving upper management.

Ever heard of asset stripping?
Ever come across a private equity firm?
Land speculators?
Government ministers flitting between the Houses of Parliament to these sharks and back again.

All given free reign less a few soft conditions set by an ineffective Whitehall.

Buying cheap? Wish it was as simple as that.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:30 pm  

coco the fullback wrote:

Answer what?
It's some kind of rhetorical rant which makes little sense.

Yes it does.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:36 pm  

Miro wrote:

Not so I, I always buy home produced stuff if possible. Only yesterday I purchased a vacuum cleaner UK made.
If I have to order online from say PC World, I always have the goods delivered to the store just to help oil the wheels down on Cathedral walk. Every little bit helps to keep stores open.

To say it's a WHOLE different argument is naive to say the least. A factor yes but not in a million years "wholly different. "
Are you saying we stopped buying York chocolate because we found cheaper chocolate from Poland? Or fish?

I worked for a very good company and it was taken over by a lesser (success wise) company and shut down. Know why? So the chairman or managing director, who had two years to run before retirement wanted the balance sheet to look good in his favour. and his bonus.
A year later my firm was gone, amalgamated, the land sold. He retired on a fat bonus and now the amalgamation and parent firm is dead and gone too. yet the industry we served is still thriving. We were specialists in our field, nothing to do with cost, but that didn't matter to the morally corrupt, self serving upper management.

Ever heard of asset stripping?
Ever come across a private equity firm?
Land speculators?
Government ministers flitting between the Houses of Parliament to these sharks and back again.

All given free reign less a few soft conditions set by an ineffective Whitehall.

Buying cheap? Wish it was as simple as that.

Great work on your new vac.
How about the clothes on your back or, the car on your drive or taxi/bus that you take, if you dont have a car ?
What have you bought from PC World - was it too made in England.
And what about the rest of the UK population - the pattern of the nations buying habits suggests that , like on this thread, you are in a very, very small minority - Have you seen the balance of trade figures for the last 30/40 years ? - there was a time when the UK tried to have a positive BoT but, that is long, long gone. Again, laregely abandoned under the Thatcher regime.

Sadly in the commercial world, many/most large companies site themselves in the most cost effective base to run their business - we best steer clear of Brexit

During Thatcher's reign the UK made to run with the "free market", allowing the £ to be the controlling factor in most economic decisions. Selling off everything from the railways to the utilities and pretty much all of the former Nationalised industries, swapping money going into government coffers (in theory) and instead, filling the pockets of wealthy investment companies or certain individuals pockets.

Still, this has rock all to do with covid and the many different government responses in how it is being "dealt with".

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:06 pm  

Miro wrote:

Yes it does.

I'm glad you agree it makes little sense

[PopTart]

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:08 pm  

Miro wrote:

Maybe for the same reasons the vast majority of our serious manufacturing industries were sold off and shifted abroad.
Despite protests and strikes, letters to the editor, harranging your MP, sit down protests, marches in support of workers losing their jobs it all went ahead with, in many or most cases, government approval.
When the people of South Wales lost Burberry and York a good proportion of it's century old chocolate industry to Poland and even Wakefield losing Bombardier to Spain no one in power appeared to give a hoot. The list is endless and no, we are not talking lame duck industries here, they still thrive, just not here.

The USA has made millions unemployed by outsourcing it's manufacturing to China all with devestating results for ordinary Americans.

One of the saddest cases was Paisley in Scotland (see the BBC documentary “The Town That Thread Built.”) Remember too (those old enough) when Whitby fishing trawlers were being cut up for scrap back in the 70s. Nothing to do with no fish, nothing to do with being un-economical, just rules from above.

So anyone who comes on here wringing their hands and saying “why would they do that?” or worse, “they wouldn't do that.” or Coco's question above, think again. You can bet your life someone somewhere will be picking up the slack and increasing their bottom line, but it aint us.

You haven't actually even attempted to answer that question. You just again post more questions back.

The answer to your question is that in many cases they were private businesses in charge of their own destiny. Although it would be great for the GOV to bail them out it isn't as simple as that as it is tax payers money being given to a private business to make profit. The money was better spent supporting those that couldn't get another job.
For the public sector like coal, steel etc, although they were not my choice of action, the reason they outsourced this was because in their eyes it was more cost effective.

Neither case relates to the question you were asked.

[PopTart]

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:14 pm  

Miro wrote:

Not so I, I always buy home produced stuff if possible. Only yesterday I purchased a vacuum cleaner UK made.
If I have to order online from say PC World, I always have the goods delivered to the store just to help oil the wheels down on Cathedral walk. Every little bit helps to keep stores open.

To say it's a WHOLE different argument is naive to say the least. A factor yes but not in a million years "wholly different. "
Are you saying we stopped buying York chocolate because we found cheaper chocolate from Poland? Or fish?

I worked for a very good company and it was taken over by a lesser (success wise) company and shut down. Know why? So the chairman or managing director, who had two years to run before retirement wanted the balance sheet to look good in his favour. and his bonus.
A year later my firm was gone, amalgamated, the land sold. He retired on a fat bonus and now the amalgamation and parent firm is dead and gone too. yet the industry we served is still thriving. We were specialists in our field, nothing to do with cost, but that didn't matter to the morally corrupt, self serving upper management.

Ever heard of asset stripping?
Ever come across a private equity firm?
Land speculators?
Government ministers flitting between the Houses of Parliament to these sharks and back again.

All given free reign less a few soft conditions set by an ineffective Whitehall.

Buying cheap? Wish it was as simple as that.

Sorry to break it to you but if you paid online and picked up in store, you still paid online. All you did was distract the Wakefield team from making a sale for that shop.
But in both cases it's a British firm. You could have got it sent to your house and done exactly the same for the British company.
You just used a bit of foreign petrol to get it.

[PopTart]

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:18 pm  

Miro wrote:

A gent wearing a visor came onto my premises to collect and pay for goods yesterday. After joking someone should come up with wipers for visors (see, I'm not all bad.) he procceeded to pay me bringing out a wad of notes. He then licks his fingers to seperate them and hands them over to me. I have to say I am neither worried nor scared and in many ways that is how I choose to live, without fear.
I'll let you know how I get on.

Rightly or wrongly, I always say to the masked "don't need to wear that (mask) on my account" You would not believe how many whip it off, and look relieved, all bar one gent who was scared what his wife would say' .

Disclaimer:
Now, just for the statisticians I have to say my client base is something like .00000000000000000000000000000000001% of the world.
So no need to get back to me on that.

So you mean you are not only going against health and safety advice you are encouraging others to do so.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:16 pm  

PopTart wrote:

So you mean you are not only going against health and safety advice you are encouraging others to do so.

they will be adding further information to death certificates like he also died of stupidity