Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:46 am  

wrencat1873 wrote: Get ready for "lockdown 2", looks like its coming very soon. Maybe the hospitals ARE filling up again, it must be with people pretending they are ill with a fake virus https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-englan ... r-54730059 Mind you he's still alive so, they may be right I'll ask again, how many suicides, delayed cancer ops, livelihoods destroyed, increase in mental illness etc. etc. etc. etc. are you prepared to accept before you admit all these ridiculous measures are completely dis-proportionate I realise it may be painfull to recognise the damage this is doing but please try.

wrencat1873 wrote: Get ready for "lockdown 2", looks like its coming very soon. Maybe the hospitals ARE filling up again, it must be with people pretending they are ill with a fake virus https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-englan ... r-54730059 Mind you he's still alive so, they may be right I'll ask again, how many suicides, delayed cancer ops, livelihoods destroyed, increase in mental illness etc. etc. etc. etc. are you prepared to accept before you admit all these ridiculous measures are completely dis-proportionate I realise it may be painfull to recognise the damage this is doing but please try.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:14 am  

My views of you remain as previously stated and guided by Forum rules I will not be repeating them but I do have a question, your crusade/campaign to convert others to your views/theory/stance on Covid 19 why play it out on this forum, quite narrow and with a limited audience and a profile that's rugby and sports minded.

Do you use Facebook. twitter, YouTube. the press, radio & TV media or other social medium? Covid 19 is not specific to RL or sport in general in fact it impacts on everything. You occasionally give sport a mention but Covid 19 is not specific to WT or RL

So Miro why here?

if you are confident in your beliefs why have you not been badgering the BBC, ITV Radio national and local, similarly the press and the rest of media options. I suppose you may be doing all of that but I've not seen much evidence to support that.

If you are posting/badgering elsewhere let me know I would be keen to see others response to your views outside the world of Trinity and RL

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:11 am  

Miro wrote:

I'll ask again, how many suicides, delayed cancer ops, livelihoods destroyed, increase in mental illness etc. etc. etc. etc. are you prepared to accept before you admit all these ridiculous measures are completely dis-proportionate

I realise it may be painfull to recognise the damage this is doing but please try.

Some of the measures do seem disproportionate no question and the "collateral damage" is considerable - livelihoods, mental illness, delayed op's, suicides etc.
Do you think that the governments around the world dont know this ?

The point is, knowing that all of this will happen, they still believe that the restrictions are the best method of controlling both the numbers being admitted to hospital and the numbers on people dying.

For those that haven't been directly affected, it's easy to say "well I'm alright" or "I dont know anyone that comes in my shop that has died" but, the point is that 10's of 1000's that live in the UK have died and the expectation is that this number is going to multiply quite quickly.
Perhaps if EVERYONE had followed the guidance and with a stronger, less dithering government, some of the measures wouldn't have been neccessary but, some choose, still, to ignore what they have been told for the last 10 months.

The lockdown that we are facing this week, should have happened 6 weeks ago, which would have meant fewer infections and fewer deaths but, Boris failed to act (again) and this merely prolongs the pain.

I hope that you understand my comment about hospitals filling up and the context in which it was said.

The prediction is 4/5 weeks before EVERY bed is full, meaning no treatment for ANYONE, not just covid patients, EVERYONE - wouldn't that be great.

[PopTart]

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:54 am  

Miro wrote:

I'll ask again, how many suicides, delayed cancer ops, livelihoods destroyed, increase in mental illness etc. etc. etc. etc. are you prepared to accept before you admit all these ridiculous measures are completely dis-proportionate

I realise it may be painfull to recognise the damage this is doing but please try.

You can ask as many times as you like but no one on here knows that including you.
Cancer ops are not being delayed because of Covid. NHS have said that. Consultation and meetings have been delayed sometimes and they have encouraged people not to cancel them.

Mental Wellbeing and livelihoods is another thing.
It is tough for a lot of people but GOV are doing a tremendous amount to support people financially to get them through this. I'm not sure anyone can criticise that.

To use your logic, I have not heard of anyone passing away with cancer or suicide because of lockdown so it can't be true. Works both ways if you want to use that card.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:23 am  

Miro wrote:

I'll ask again, how many suicides, delayed cancer ops, livelihoods destroyed, increase in mental illness etc. etc. etc. etc. are you prepared to accept before you admit all these ridiculous measures are completely dis-proportionate

I realise it may be painfull to recognise the damage this is doing but please try.

I've heard 1 locally after lock down a staff member of asda that got mentioned on my partners FB otherwise I've not seen of any figures but yes its sad to hear of anyone that is desperate to take there life, before all this virus took hold I known at least 5 locally I even arrived at the scene at one of them while dog walking in the early morning and it wasn't a pleasant sight and haunts me even to this day

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:57 pm  

Miro wrote: Then what were you inferring here, why bring up 600,000 as a percentage? You said Can you tell me before I tell you the population of the USA and what percentage 600,000 people is. I took it as you indicating that 600,000 was a small number of Americans and therefore inferring I was indicating that it was a large number of Americans. So what were you inferring? I asked First of all I never claimed 600,000 was a large percentage of the USA population so why bring that up? How is that slagging you off? The crazy emoji ? Well you, if you buy a used car from Texas Pete after reading 600 complaints about him...logical? Right OK you are still beating the drum and not answering any debate put to you. Let me explain to you you keep quoting 0.3% of the population is only really affected by Covid so in effect we should dismiss it and run with it. Well that equates to about 220,000 deaths in the UK from Covid based on 66million people a bit of work for the NHS there mate. Now you keep bleating on about this American petition signed by 600,000 people as if its massive well lets put it into your percentage profiles, the population of the US is in excess of 300,000,000 which works out that the petition is around 0.3%, on the one hand you totally dismiss this figure as irrelevant and then on another you are ramming it down peoples necks as if nothing else counts. Now then you bang on about Gates and his Event 201 Well what about this one then that occurred almost a year before the one you mention is a world conspiracy this one by the World Health Organisation was held in 2018. https://www.who.int/ihr/eoc-exercise/en/

Miro wrote: Then what were you inferring here, why bring up 600,000 as a percentage? You said Can you tell me before I tell you the population of the USA and what percentage 600,000 people is. I took it as you indicating that 600,000 was a small number of Americans and therefore inferring I was indicating that it was a large number of Americans. So what were you inferring? I asked First of all I never claimed 600,000 was a large percentage of the USA population so why bring that up? How is that slagging you off? The crazy emoji ? Well you, if you buy a used car from Texas Pete after reading 600 complaints about him...logical? Right OK you are still beating the drum and not answering any debate put to you. Let me explain to you you keep quoting 0.3% of the population is only really affected by Covid so in effect we should dismiss it and run with it. Well that equates to about 220,000 deaths in the UK from Covid based on 66million people a bit of work for the NHS there mate. Now you keep bleating on about this American petition signed by 600,000 people as if its massive well lets put it into your percentage profiles, the population of the US is in excess of 300,000,000 which works out that the petition is around 0.3%, on the one hand you totally dismiss this figure as irrelevant and then on another you are ramming it down peoples necks as if nothing else counts. Now then you bang on about Gates and his Event 201 Well what about this one then that occurred almost a year before the one you mention is a world conspiracy this one by the World Health Organisation was held in 2018. https://www.who.int/ihr/eoc-exercise/en/

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:22 pm  

At the moment LGI is essentially full and Pinderfields almost full.

There will be no space in the hospitals for cancer ops, unless the virus is brought under control.

It's not a binary choice: Stop covid or live unrestricted lives. It's a balance that the govt has to decide upon to protect our society overall.

You should also consider this - if someone suffers suicide, cancer, loss of income or depression, they don't pass it on.

Each person with covid is currently passing it on to more than 1 other person.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:17 pm  

dboy wrote: At the moment LGI is essentially full and Pinderfields almost full. There will be no space in the hospitals for cancer ops, unless the virus is brought under control. It's not a binary choice: Stop covid or live unrestricted lives. It's a balance that the govt has to decide upon to protect our society overall. You should also consider this - if someone suffers suicide, cancer, loss of income or depression, they don't pass it on. Each person with covid is currently passing it on to more than 1 other person. I presume you've been following the official press office messages such as this printed in the YEP. https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... ic-3016764 However I want the hard data rather than reports from a hospital press office. I have no interest in regional PR announcements, a Patrick Vallance mystic meg style prediction, a Prof "lockdown" Ferguson model or a score using Kevin Williamson's algorithm tool. I think "context" based on real data is required here. The claim "NHS about to be overwhelmed" - so then, using actual published NHS data please can you provide a summary or table link to demonstrate this assertion to be true? From my research the LGI and Leeds St James Trust University hospital have 72 ICU beds in total divided up for various forms of Adult Care. Currently reported on 27th October there are 22 patients in ICU "with" a positive Covid. The percentage of overall adult care beds occupied is therefore 30.5%. The Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust has approximately 2,500 inpatient beds together with critical care and day case beds. Taken from the YEP report The trust said there are 263 patients currently in their beds who have tested positive for Covid - including the 22 in intensive care. Now want I want to know is how does this percentage compare for this time of year against the last five year average?

dboy wrote: At the moment LGI is essentially full and Pinderfields almost full. There will be no space in the hospitals for cancer ops, unless the virus is brought under control. It's not a binary choice: Stop covid or live unrestricted lives. It's a balance that the govt has to decide upon to protect our society overall. You should also consider this - if someone suffers suicide, cancer, loss of income or depression, they don't pass it on. Each person with covid is currently passing it on to more than 1 other person. I presume you've been following the official press office messages such as this printed in the YEP. https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... ic-3016764 However I want the hard data rather than reports from a hospital press office. I have no interest in regional PR announcements, a Patrick Vallance mystic meg style prediction, a Prof "lockdown" Ferguson model or a score using Kevin Williamson's algorithm tool. I think "context" based on real data is required here. The claim "NHS about to be overwhelmed" - so then, using actual published NHS data please can you provide a summary or table link to demonstrate this assertion to be true? From my research the LGI and Leeds St James Trust University hospital have 72 ICU beds in total divided up for various forms of Adult Care. Currently reported on 27th October there are 22 patients in ICU "with" a positive Covid. The percentage of overall adult care beds occupied is therefore 30.5%. The Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust has approximately 2,500 inpatient beds together with critical care and day case beds. Taken from the YEP report The trust said there are 263 patients currently in their beds who have tested positive for Covid - including the 22 in intensive care. Now want I want to know is how does this percentage compare for this time of year against the last five year average?

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:28 pm  

Miro wrote: I'll ask again, how many suicides, delayed cancer ops, livelihoods destroyed, increase in mental illness etc. etc. etc. etc. are you prepared to accept before you admit all these ridiculous measures are completely dis-proportionate I realise it may be painfull to recognise the damage this is doing but please try. A November lockdown exactly as I predicted back in April and here on this forum. It's obvious this lockdown will not stop overall deaths from increasing as they always increase at this time of year, right through until January. The only hope they've got is "to try it on" by the claiming the lockdown was a huge success because they've seen a drop in confirmed "positive" cases by 2nd December. This might be achieved, not through a reduction of actual transmission but rather a manipulation of the testing system. Don't be surprised if they drop the number of daily tests carried out from 350,000 a day to a much lower number. We must keep an eye out to see if they play this trick throughout the whole month of November. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/testing

Miro wrote: I'll ask again, how many suicides, delayed cancer ops, livelihoods destroyed, increase in mental illness etc. etc. etc. etc. are you prepared to accept before you admit all these ridiculous measures are completely dis-proportionate I realise it may be painfull to recognise the damage this is doing but please try. A November lockdown exactly as I predicted back in April and here on this forum. It's obvious this lockdown will not stop overall deaths from increasing as they always increase at this time of year, right through until January. The only hope they've got is "to try it on" by the claiming the lockdown was a huge success because they've seen a drop in confirmed "positive" cases by 2nd December. This might be achieved, not through a reduction of actual transmission but rather a manipulation of the testing system. Don't be surprised if they drop the number of daily tests carried out from 350,000 a day to a much lower number. We must keep an eye out to see if they play this trick throughout the whole month of November. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/testing

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:36 pm  

MatthewTrin wrote: I presume you've been following the official press office messages such as this printed in the YEP. https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... ic-3016764 However I want the hard data rather than reports from a hospital press office. I have no interest in regional PR announcements, a Patrick Vallance mystic meg style prediction, a Prof "lockdown" Ferguson model or a score using Kevin Williamson's algorithm tool. I think "context" based on real data is required here. The claim "NHS about to be overwhelmed" - so then, using actual published NHS data please can you provide a summary or table link to demonstrate this assertion to be true? From my research the LGI and Leeds St James Trust University hospital have 72 ICU beds in total divided up for various forms of Adult Care. Currently reported on 27th October there are 22 patients in ICU "with" a positive Covid. The percentage of overall adult care beds occupied is therefore 30.5%. Now want I want to know is how does this percentage compare for this time of year against the last five year average. What you have got to realise is ICU’s will have to be split between hot and Cold ie positive or negative. This has been done previously by changing HDU’s to ICU’s, to accommodate negative ICU patients ie surgical patients. The other issue is staffing, it’s ok having the capacity but with no staff, whicj I believe a very high number of ICU nurses have left the Leeds trust in the last 6 months due to all this. This does not also take into account HDU trained nurses now having to look after level 3 patients (ICU top level patients) HDU take level 2 patients. You can throw all the statistics you want regarding how many patients there were over the last few years, if there aren’t the staff there to look after any amount of patients than it’s screwed isn’t it. Let’s face it the NHS has been under funded and staff underpaid for years, just look at what it’s created. The nightingale hospitals won’t open as again no staff to work in them.

MatthewTrin wrote: I presume you've been following the official press office messages such as this printed in the YEP. https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... ic-3016764 However I want the hard data rather than reports from a hospital press office. I have no interest in regional PR announcements, a Patrick Vallance mystic meg style prediction, a Prof "lockdown" Ferguson model or a score using Kevin Williamson's algorithm tool. I think "context" based on real data is required here. The claim "NHS about to be overwhelmed" - so then, using actual published NHS data please can you provide a summary or table link to demonstrate this assertion to be true? From my research the LGI and Leeds St James Trust University hospital have 72 ICU beds in total divided up for various forms of Adult Care. Currently reported on 27th October there are 22 patients in ICU "with" a positive Covid. The percentage of overall adult care beds occupied is therefore 30.5%. Now want I want to know is how does this percentage compare for this time of year against the last five year average. What you have got to realise is ICU’s will have to be split between hot and Cold ie positive or negative. This has been done previously by changing HDU’s to ICU’s, to accommodate negative ICU patients ie surgical patients. The other issue is staffing, it’s ok having the capacity but with no staff, whicj I believe a very high number of ICU nurses have left the Leeds trust in the last 6 months due to all this. This does not also take into account HDU trained nurses now having to look after level 3 patients (ICU top level patients) HDU take level 2 patients. You can throw all the statistics you want regarding how many patients there were over the last few years, if there aren’t the staff there to look after any amount of patients than it’s screwed isn’t it. Let’s face it the NHS has been under funded and staff underpaid for years, just look at what it’s created. The nightingale hospitals won’t open as again no staff to work in them.