Re: Wigan in cup : Wed Apr 06, 2022 2:26 am  

PopTart wrote:

The problem is for rugby league is that they don't have video ref at every game so it's deemed unfair.

I don’t like that argument if it is the official reason as having a video ref make the call on any ruling could be deemed unfair.

The whole point is it is meant to assist and cut down on human error.

When we are able to and have the technology to do so we need to get the ruling correct even if we cannot in all the fixtures.

I believe they are trialing a microchipped ball which will hopefully inform refs if a ball has gone forward out of the hands, assume it uses GPS. The danger is though the game becomes too stop start I guess when these technological elements are introduced to the game.

Re: Wigan in cup : Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:14 am  

For my mind it’s part and parcel of this great game of our ,if it gets pulled fair do’s ,its not like every other team out there don't sling the odd forward pass in a game ,some are real exponents of the short forward pass ,you could even argue it’s a skill to deceive ,and has been coached into their game .Makes me chuckle when play is at the other end of the field and fans behind the sticks shout (gerrem onside ) . All part of this rich tapestry of a day out at Rugby ,and for me long may it continue ,and to my mind hope that technology doesn’t erode further the spectacle ,as players are human after all and not robots and do make mistakes , or push their luck ,just as we all do in life .

Re: Wigan in cup : Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:17 am  

PopTart wrote:

But it's not cheating. It's a mistake. That's the only point I'm making.
You not understanding his decision does not mean he didn't make it with genuine intent.

The forward pass was far more damaging from a Salford point of view.

But it is cheating just not in the conventional sence.

Missing a forward pass is a mistake, I accept that as should all fans. It’s a decision made in the moment where there is no recourse to second look.

In the Kelepi incident there is. The SL along with SKY spent a fortune on technology to ensure the ref doesn’t need to make glaring mistakes wherever possible. All the protocols and options were there for the ref to use and for no reason anyone can think of he refused. That may have been a mistake as you say but it was an inexcusable one, utterly needles.

If the result of the game had gone the other way I think it would be very fair to say we had been cheated of a great victory.

Avoidable incompetence is cheating in all but name because it cheats those you are suppose to be serving - the fans.

[PopTart]

Re: Wigan in cup : Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:57 am  

vastman wrote:

But it is cheating just not in the conventional sence.

Missing a forward pass is a mistake, I accept that as should all fans. It’s a decision made in the moment where there is no recourse to second look.

In the Kelepi incident there is. The SL along with SKY spent a fortune on technology to ensure the ref doesn’t need to make glaring mistakes wherever possible. All the protocols and options were there for the ref to use and for no reason anyone can think of he refused. That may have been a mistake as you say but it was an inexcusable one, utterly needles.

If the result of the game had gone the other way I think it would be very fair to say we had been cheated of a great victory.

Avoidable incompetence is cheating in all but name because it cheats those you are suppose to be serving - the fans.

So all the way through that, you effectively say its not cheating.

Re: Wigan in cup : Wed Apr 06, 2022 7:18 am  

wrencat1873 wrote: Just to be clear PT, the ref at Wire chose not to listen to his assistant and not to go to the VR to check whether Kelepi had been pulled back. This is somewhat different to missing a forward pass. Dont know if it was cheating but, it was poor refereeing at it's worst. No try, no review and not even a bloody penalty.posting.php?mode=quote&f=33&p=19291663# Yes, we won the game and nobody can know what difference going in all square at ht would have made to the final score but, it was an absolute shocker. Agree with you 100% but, according to Cokey and I'm not sure how he'd know anyway tbf, he says that Smith ignored Wakefield's appeal because and I quote Cokey, Hick was in the refs ear and Smith acted on his advice, water under the bridge now but would you rule it out? fwiw same sort of thing on Sunday only less contentious, second half Kendal waved play on then gave it the other way on the advice of Hicks, love these conspiracy theories

wrencat1873 wrote: Just to be clear PT, the ref at Wire chose not to listen to his assistant and not to go to the VR to check whether Kelepi had been pulled back. This is somewhat different to missing a forward pass. Dont know if it was cheating but, it was poor refereeing at it's worst. No try, no review and not even a bloody penalty.posting.php?mode=quote&f=33&p=19291663# Yes, we won the game and nobody can know what difference going in all square at ht would have made to the final score but, it was an absolute shocker. Agree with you 100% but, according to Cokey and I'm not sure how he'd know anyway tbf, he says that Smith ignored Wakefield's appeal because and I quote Cokey, Hick was in the refs ear and Smith acted on his advice, water under the bridge now but would you rule it out? fwiw same sort of thing on Sunday only less contentious, second half Kendal waved play on then gave it the other way on the advice of Hicks, love these conspiracy theories

Re: Wigan in cup : Wed Apr 06, 2022 7:42 am  

I may be on my own, but I'm not convinced Miller's pass was forward.
Clearly it travels forward relative to the field, but passes on the run always do. He gets stopped immediately by the Salford defender as he releases the ball, but the receiver is behind him at the time and doesn't accelerate onto the ball to catch it.
The touch judge is in perfect position to see any forward pass. Even though Miller stops, he's released the ball, so that will continue on its normal trajectory.
These are the perfect conditions for the optical illusion of it being passed forward.

Re: Wigan in cup : Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:00 am  

coco the fullback wrote:

I may be on my own, but I'm not convinced Miller's pass was forward.
Clearly it travels forward relative to the field, but passes on the run always do. He gets stopped immediately by the Salford defender as he releases the ball, but the receiver is behind him at the time and doesn't accelerate onto the ball to catch it.
The touch judge is in perfect position to see any forward pass. Even though Miller stops, he's released the ball, so that will continue on its normal trajectory.
These are the perfect conditions for the optical illusion of it being passed forward.

I'm sure that everyone has seen far, far worse, especially at Headingley

Re: Wigan in cup : Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:23 am  

PopTart wrote:

So all the way through that, you effectively say its not cheating.

Cheating is a word that has more than one way of being expressed and thus has more than one meaning. You've chosen to make a one-man stand against the popular consensus on this issue, your choice.

However, he cheated the fans by being incompetent. Stop pretending you don't know exactly what I mean.

Re: Wigan in cup : Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:09 am  

vastman wrote:

Cheating is a word that has more than one way of being expressed and thus has more than one meaning. You've chosen to make a one-man stand against the popular consensus on this issue, your choice.

However, he cheated the fans by being incompetent. Stop pretending you don't know exactly what I mean.

Bottom line is he should have gone to the video ref.
Not sure about (blatent) cheating - but total imcompatence.
I wonder if he'd have gone to the screen if it had been at the other end........
.....Or had just given the penalty try himself..........

Re: Wigan in cup : Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:57 am  

coco the fullback wrote:

I may be on my own, but I'm not convinced Miller's pass was forward.
Clearly it travels forward relative to the field, but passes on the run always do. He gets stopped immediately by the Salford defender as he releases the ball, but the receiver is behind him at the time and doesn't accelerate onto the ball to catch it.
The touch judge is in perfect position to see any forward pass. Even though Miller stops, he's released the ball, so that will continue on its normal trajectory.
These are the perfect conditions for the optical illusion of it being passed forward.

We get a way with a forward pass in game against Salford ,and we got some fans calling it cheating. Think it is more down to the kind of foot ball we are playing this season.Do not agree with Salford coach who said it was 3 yard forward or was it 5 .Been in the game a lot since S L started ,as said Leeds were very good at it. We were on a very bad one at M W against Catalan could name a lot more that as gone against us .My best one was when B Boston scored the winning try against us at Wakefield .it was so far forward that he stopped running .The ref said play on so he started running and scored .Still the same down to the ref in what he wants to see and does not