Re: Plans submitted. : Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:36 am  

dboy wrote:

The new generation pitches still need maintenance.

Plus I think people will be surprised how much other stuff Steve does around the place.

It's a big job running a ground.

I'm going to bore people with a report on 3G/4G pitches at some point, still putting it together.

3G/4G pitches do not require any real maintenance, certainly when compared to grass. Truth is a part of the current groundsman job would be redundant but as you say I'm sure there is still plenty for him to do.

Basically, they require a wash down once or twice a day depending on use and conditions. The only serious job is the pitch markings which I will report on later. Multi-use means multi markings and the adding and removal thereof, that's a job in its own right, well nearly. As I say, his job is probably safe.

Re: Plans submitted. : Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:19 am  

A point to remember is that with heavy use, as i guess will be the plan, artificial pitches need replacing relatively regularly. Widnes’ i-pitch (which was a new generation pitch at the time in advance of a traditional 3G one) was shot to bits when they replaced it after 7 years. It cost about 300K to do. As theirs was council owned Halton borough covered it, we would have to fund any replacement moving forward. There is also some evidence of artificial surfaces causing extra injuries. The NFL play mostly on artificial pitches and the number of ACL injuries they get is scary. As a 2019 study published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine points out, “playing on artificial turf increases the risk of lower body injury and that field surface has a causal effect on injury rates due to synthetic turf’s lack of ability to release an athlete’s shoe.” Rugby Union did some research a couple of years ago which found worrying trends. https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/staggering-amount-of-injuries-on-4g-pitches-compared-to-grass-1.3641369%3fmode=amp Its not the direction i’d go in but the short term pound signs will be too much to resist i guess.

A point to remember is that with heavy use, as i guess will be the plan, artificial pitches need replacing relatively regularly. Widnes’ i-pitch (which was a new generation pitch at the time in advance of a traditional 3G one) was shot to bits when they replaced it after 7 years. It cost about 300K to do. As theirs was council owned Halton borough covered it, we would have to fund any replacement moving forward. There is also some evidence of artificial surfaces causing extra injuries. The NFL play mostly on artificial pitches and the number of ACL injuries they get is scary. As a 2019 study published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine points out, “playing on artificial turf increases the risk of lower body injury and that field surface has a causal effect on injury rates due to synthetic turf’s lack of ability to release an athlete’s shoe.” Rugby Union did some research a couple of years ago which found worrying trends. https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/staggering-amount-of-injuries-on-4g-pitches-compared-to-grass-1.3641369%3fmode=amp Its not the direction i’d go in but the short term pound signs will be too much to resist i guess.

Re: Plans submitted. : Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:52 am  

Sacred Cow wrote: A point to remember is that with heavy use, as i guess will be the plan, artificial pitches need replacing relatively regularly. Widnes’ i-pitch (which was a new generation pitch at the time in advance of a traditional 3G one) was shot to bits when they replaced it after 7 years. It cost about 300K to do. As theirs was council owned Halton borough covered it, we would have to fund any replacement moving forward. There is also some evidence of artificial surfaces causing extra injuries. The NFL play mostly on artificial pitches and the number of ACL injuries they get is scary. As a 2019 study published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine points out, “playing on artificial turf increases the risk of lower body injury and that field surface has a causal effect on injury rates due to synthetic turf’s lack of ability to release an athlete’s shoe.” Rugby Union did some research a couple of years ago which found worrying trends. https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/staggering-amount-of-injuries-on-4g-pitches-compared-to-grass-1.3641369%3fmode=amp Its not the direction i’d go in but the short term pound signs will be too much to resist i guess. Fair comment except for the last bit. How is it short term? This re-development is clearly being funded under the guise of a community facility. You can't possibly have a grass pitch in this case, it's simply impossible. I'd seriously like to know the alternative because this really is our last chance. The club couldn't possibly afford a new stand and a North stand, Rollin Shack re-vamp. etc on it's own. It's not a short term pound at all IMO, it's every pound counts if we are to have any chance surviving as a top-flight club. Lets also not forget that technology does not standstill. Every year better versions of synthetic pitches will be produced and issues ironed out, they are the future like it or not. If you have an alternative plan please share, I'm not being sarcastic I'm just interested.

Sacred Cow wrote: A point to remember is that with heavy use, as i guess will be the plan, artificial pitches need replacing relatively regularly. Widnes’ i-pitch (which was a new generation pitch at the time in advance of a traditional 3G one) was shot to bits when they replaced it after 7 years. It cost about 300K to do. As theirs was council owned Halton borough covered it, we would have to fund any replacement moving forward. There is also some evidence of artificial surfaces causing extra injuries. The NFL play mostly on artificial pitches and the number of ACL injuries they get is scary. As a 2019 study published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine points out, “playing on artificial turf increases the risk of lower body injury and that field surface has a causal effect on injury rates due to synthetic turf’s lack of ability to release an athlete’s shoe.” Rugby Union did some research a couple of years ago which found worrying trends. https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/staggering-amount-of-injuries-on-4g-pitches-compared-to-grass-1.3641369%3fmode=amp Its not the direction i’d go in but the short term pound signs will be too much to resist i guess. Fair comment except for the last bit. How is it short term? This re-development is clearly being funded under the guise of a community facility. You can't possibly have a grass pitch in this case, it's simply impossible. I'd seriously like to know the alternative because this really is our last chance. The club couldn't possibly afford a new stand and a North stand, Rollin Shack re-vamp. etc on it's own. It's not a short term pound at all IMO, it's every pound counts if we are to have any chance surviving as a top-flight club. Lets also not forget that technology does not standstill. Every year better versions of synthetic pitches will be produced and issues ironed out, they are the future like it or not. If you have an alternative plan please share, I'm not being sarcastic I'm just interested.

Re: Plans submitted. : Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:06 am  

Chuff me it’s just some grass. What’s so special about it, they only used grass because there didn’t used to be an alternative. Also who says it’s a better surface, I’ve played 5 a side on 3G and it was fine, barely tell the difference as I was crap on both!

If it’s sanctioned by the sport bodies and 3G certainly is then it’s ok. Better still it makes money or doesn’t that matter.

Only Trinity fans could get caught up on a total non issue. Jeez it not as if most of them will ever play on it.

Just rejoice in the fact that we appear to have finally got something, especially when it looked like we were getting nothing at one point. It’s not perfect but who ever promised you perfect.

The redevelopment makes BV fit for purpose again, only those with a massive sense of over entitlement would not be pleased with what we have been offered imho.

Lighten up, surely it’s what happens on the pitch that counts not what it’s made of!

Re: Plans submitted. : Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:29 am  

Personally i'd go for a hybrid pitch which are harder wearing than a fully natural pitch without the harshness of an artificial surface. The initial cost may be slightly more and the general maintainence is more akin to normal pitch but just like synthetic the technology is improving and as it is relatively new much more rapidly. The belief is that the pitches will last longer than artificial before being replaced as obviously the grass regenerates naturally and the extra give in the surface would highly mean less injuries as documented above given we are playing a high contact game, saving money long term on medical costs and insurance. They are also asthetically better on the eye in my opinion making the stadium as a whole look better at the ground and on tv, important factors when trying to sell sponsorship space, conferences, corperate hospitaly, wedding receptions etc. Long term i feel it would be financially beneficial to go this way for a little more outlay upfront, hence the short term comment.

Re: Plans submitted. : Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:06 pm  

Sacred Cow wrote:

Personally i'd go for a hybrid pitch which are harder wearing than a fully natural pitch without the harshness of an artificial surface. The initial cost may be slightly more and the general maintainence is more akin to normal pitch but just like synthetic the technology is improving and as it is relatively new much more rapidly. The belief is that the pitches will last longer than artificial before being replaced as obviously the grass regenerates naturally and the extra give in the surface would highly mean less injuries as documented above given we are playing a high contact game, saving money long term on medical costs and insurance. They are also asthetically better on the eye in my opinion making the stadium as a whole look better at the ground and on tv, important factors when trying to sell sponsorship space, conferences, corperate hospitaly, wedding receptions etc. Long term i feel it would be financially beneficial to go this way for a little more outlay upfront, hence the short term comment.

The hybrid would IMHO be an option if say we were just sharing with the two football teams. I reckon if used sparingly it could handle that. However this 4G pitch is clearly there to give a genuine 'community' element, probably vital for Council support.

Although I hope every Tom, Dick and Harry doesn't get to play on it, I suspect it will get far more use than a Hybrid pitch could truly stand.

I agree it would possibly be better though that is fairly subjective but I can't see it being practical.

Re: Plans submitted. : Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:09 pm  

Fishermanscap wrote:

I have a theory as to why some Wakey fans are making such a fuss about such an incidental side issue. I don't recall any of the fans of other great clubs such as Hull, Saints and Warrington making such an issue out of it, sad yes but claiming it a mistake! No.

Sad truth is that for the past 40 years the only thing about BV that we could justifiably be proud of was the pitch and the Floodlights. Floodlights are not very emotive, pitches more so. Truth is that after a few games, especially if we play well, everyone will have forgotten that there is a new pitch, it will just be BV.

You gave the answer in the first line of your second paragraph.

Re: Plans submitted. : Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:33 pm  

At the end of the day as a supporter I don' give a toss whether it's grass or 4G. My opinion is of no consequence, the only opinions that matter are those of the people that have to play on it,

Re: Plans submitted. : Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:00 pm  

It’s probably fair to say that it’s nothing to do with who’s playing on it and more to do with who’s paying for it and who’s designing it.
Players I do believe don’t have any input into the infrastructure of the club.
All we can do is discuss our preferences on here, but can’t for a minute imagine it’ll make any difference to clubs business. We all seem to start arguing amongst ourselves for some reason when all we have are own opinions.
We all love our club and that’s took some doing over the last 30 years, so when I see people snipping at each other’s views on here makes me sad really as we all want to see success. Shame we can’t accept not everyone else will think the same as each other without attacking that opinion!!!
Roll on the new season please and let’s get back to blaming the ref for everything happy days

Re: Plans submitted. : Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:01 pm  

comeontrinity wrote:

It’s probably fair to say that it’s nothing to do with who’s playing on it and more to do with who’s paying for it and who’s designing it.
Players I do believe don’t have any input into the infrastructure of the club.
All we can do is discuss our preferences on here, but can’t for a minute imagine it’ll make any difference to clubs business. We all seem to start arguing amongst ourselves for some reason when all we have are own opinions.
We all love our club and that’s took some doing over the last 30 years, so when I see people snipping at each other’s views on here makes me sad really as we all want to see success. Shame we can’t accept not everyone else will think the same as each other without attacking that opinion!!!
Roll on the new season please and let’s get back to blaming the ref for everything happy days

I wasn't sniping, The point I was trying to make was that as a supporter it doesn't matter which surface I think is best , it's only to the people that play on it , and their preferences that it really matters. I wasn't suggesting that players have any input into the infrastructure of the club.