Re: So.... : Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:36 am  

Travelling Wilbury wrote:

More visibility in the city.

A bit left sided, but how about this.

Wasn't one of the challenges with the leaflets, finding enough bodies with enough time on their hands to deliver them.

A squad of 28ish players, plus academy.

How about the players to put one day aside, to assist. They will mingle with the community and walking is probably the best free cardio exercise you could have.

Perfect. Two birds on stone.

Re: So.... : Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:43 am  

Manuel wrote:

We all know US NFL has minuscule away fans. They have found ways to fill their stadia. We haven’t, after over 100 years. Why would you go again to a game if the first time you went you used an outside toilet block and the ladies toilets were a disgusting mess as usual or you were served crap from a shed. I love my club and the game but to view it and analyse it , it is a shambles. We don’t seem to help ourselves. Some traveller sites are tidier than our car park. Just start with some basic change of image. There a young marketing Companies out there that would create promotional ideas. I am sure we could think of some ourselves.

Probably the most flawed argument of the lot.

The sporting culture of the US is simply nothing like that of the UK.

Ditto the infrastructure or finance.

However, the most stunning difference is the numbers. The U.K. has a population of around 70 million. That population supports the following number of team-based ball games at pro level. 92 football teams (male), 20 (female), 14 RU teams, 12 RL teams, and the Scottish first division. Then add cricket.

The USA has an NFL of I’m guessing 30 teams and then maybe another 60 pro teams on affiliated leagues and so on with Basketball and Baseball added.

There are 400 million Americans, some with endlessly deep pockets supporting a sporting framework that if you take the colleges away is not six times the size of ours, a fair bit less in fact. No wonder they fill stadiums with that many potential fans mulling around, most of whom don’t have the tribal loyalties that make our competitions so unique. Sport in the USA is entertainment first, personally, I don't want that or not at those levels.

American sport is so insular and self-contained due to the sheer size of its domestic market that they don’t even play in international competitions!

So if your looking for an expansionist model the NFL is not it, they just play at it every 20 years or so but then they can afford to.

You certainly won’t get a Catalan or a Toulouse playing in the NFL!

Let’s drop the fantasy and be realistic. The closest model we have is the NRL but even that is deceptive as it has and has had since the early seventies, a far stronger base from which to build.

We don’t fill stadiums and attract floating fans for two main reasons IMO. One, we don’t win at an international level, our best shop window. Two, we pretend we are a big sport and attempt to make huge leaps that we can’t afford instead of pursuing steady well-planned growth and then we wonder why we fail. Those potential new fans take one look and realise the game is built on sand and go watch another sport that isn’t.

Just look at the list of failed clubs in RL, tells you all you need to know.

Re: So.... : Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:02 am  

[quote="Khlav Kalash"]Perfect. Two birds on stone.[/quote

I think you’ll find it’s kill two birds with one stone. Lol.

But yes, a good idea by Wilbury

Re: So.... : Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:22 am  

Manuel wrote:

We all know US NFL has minuscule away fans. They have found ways to fill their stadia. We haven’t, after over 100 years. Why would you go again to a game if the first time you went you used an outside toilet block and the ladies toilets were a disgusting mess as usual or you were served crap from a shed. I love my club and the game but to view it and analyse it , it is a shambles. We don’t seem to help ourselves. Some traveller sites are tidier than our car park. Just start with some basic change of image. There a young marketing Companies out there that would create promotional ideas. I am sure we could think of some ourselves.

This time next year, those basic changes will have been made, the whole frontage view from Doncaster road will be impressive, new car park, superb stand with first class hospitality, indoor toilets , all the things you say need improvements, will be done. I don’t know how much funding if any, will be available to upgrade other parts of the stadium at this time, but it’s a start, let’s look forward now, instead of backwards.
I guess I’ve woken up In a good mood this morning

Re: So.... : Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:35 am  

Dear Vasty. What I do know is that I wouldn’t expect you to agree with most things you don’t post. It’s about revenue, not tribal loyalty every time. A newbie has no loyalty till he’s been several times and gets the hook. You can’t sit on your booty selling the same widgets for a hundred years and expect the same trade, you find new products. Trinity are stagnant, as is the game, it’s not doomed though. If you are saying we don’t want a few thousand curious spectators occasionally from a promotional venture then you need a shake. You spend too much of your life dissecting other people’s views when all I am doing is stating the bleeding obvious that Trinity are stagnant and any marketing methods from USA or Uzbekistan have to be looked at. Hopefully we can come up with ideas on here and the club may read them. The fact is stadiums are very full in the USA, even for rounders, and our owners would like that don’t you think?

Re: So.... : Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:20 am  

Manuel wrote:

Dear Vasty. What I do know is that I wouldn’t expect you to agree with most things you don’t post. It’s about revenue, not tribal loyalty every time. A newbie has no loyalty till he’s been several times and gets the hook. You can’t sit on your booty selling the same widgets for a hundred years and expect the same trade, you find new products. Trinity are stagnant, as is the game, it’s not doomed though. If you are saying we don’t want a few thousand curious spectators occasionally from a promotional venture then you need a shake. You spend too much of your life dissecting other people’s views when all I am doing is stating the bleeding obvious that Trinity are stagnant and any marketing methods from USA or Uzbekistan have to be looked at. Hopefully we can come up with ideas on here and the club may read them. The fact is stadiums are very full in the USA, even for rounders, and our owners would like that don’t you think?

Not the case at all Manual dear boy.

In theory, you're right but if there is one nation on earth where theory doesn't work it's the UK (see Brexit, Boris, the NHS, and the Royal family). If that's not enough, Yorkshire takes those national characteristics to the extreme.

The rules that are applied in the USA simply don't apply here, god above life would be so much easier if they did.

Just like the industrial revolution, we were the first nation to adopt a sports culture, in fact, we invented it, and just like the industrial revolution it left us with a mish mash of the anachronistic, the modern and the downright eccentric and no sport demonstrates this more than RL.

We simply can't import the US philosophy, it simply won't work, even the more watered-down NRL version has failed.

What we need is a visionary leader capable of sorting our game out from the bottom up and when that's done fusing the traditions of our game with a more modern and commercially viable strategy.

We are on the same page, I'm just reading much more between the lines

I'm sure you will agree with me on this, these people are now in short supply in Britain and are seemingly non existent in RL!

The future will be a very bumpy ride unless we get some real leadership, without that we are chasing rainbows.

Re: So.... : Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:23 am  

Khlav Kalash wrote:

To be fair we were limpng to the finish line that season. We only had two props and Kirmond, as ever, was busted but still put his hand up to play. He lasted about 5 minutes.

The only time we do well in the cup is when we get a lucky draw. As soon as we meet SL opposition it usually results in an exit. Still, waiting for on pitch success to improve crowds is a futile tactic, we need the bigger support now to facilitate the better quality players, it's not going to happen the other way round sadly, that's why we need to do something proactive rather than hope the same old turn up and Leeds (for example) bring a large following.

We have a shortfall? What is in our control that we can do to cover that? We've got to make sure we are the best we can be irrespective of others and that mean filling BV with Trinity fans first and foremost, away fans should be treated as a bonus.

At the start of the year I started a thread with regards to the visibility of the club to the local market. I think it triggered Vasty's good work with the leaflets and to be fair the first three games back seemed to benefit from them. It kind of tailed off until Poching turned us around.

There is always more we can do, and the best tools are the players. Give them more visibility in the city and surrounding areas. Make it so all of Wakefield knows who Tom Johnstone is. Immerse the club in the local psyche, otherwise we will always bumble along at the bottom of the table with the odd good period with a CC semi-final appearance thrown in for good measure.

2023 is the clubs 150th anniversary. I wonder if we have any major plans to promote it.

To be fair Khlav a good cup run and terrestrial tv coverage would do the club the power of good . Let’s hope we get lucky this year , as times slowly running out for the likes of me . I’d push for fifita in the spotlight , he loves it , but anything to heighten the profile of the club and RL

Re: So.... : Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:52 am  

Khlav Kalash your right about lucky draw in Cup .Leeds got to Wembley and did not play a S L club so it can be done

Re: So.... : Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:27 pm  

Vasty, I know a view is not a view unless it’s yours and I agree we all want the best. What looked better on t.v. 2500 at Featherstone or 9000 in Toulouse? A neutral viewer will watch this and be impressed with a spectacle in a full house, not a load of fat flat cappers with their tops off.
Being critical of the NRL is simply weird. We are unable to beat the Aussies and have nowhere near the same crowds. Our owners would surely love a chance of this. I mentioned Uzbekistan as a joke but all countries have different approaches and in the same way coaches look at different sports for ideas, that’s a start for a marketing company too.
3500 crowd is not enough to go forward and yes, a new stand is allegedly going up. I’ve been looking at that one since I first went in 1957 so excuse may doubt.
Crigglestone, Eastmoor, Normanton and Stanley should have allocated players for every training session. If they don’t turn up they are fined. This encourages children to watch and drag a parent along with the connections built. Ok, maybe only another 100/200 on the gate but not one single idea will change things.
A sea change of attitude is needed and having been in international shipping for 40 years, I know what change the last 12 months have brought and how industry is adapting to find new supplies, weirdly enough, lots from Eastern Europe!

Re: So.... : Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:29 am  

Manuel wrote:

Vasty, I know a view is not a view unless it’s yours and I agree we all want the best. What looked better on t.v. 2500 at Featherstone or 9000 in Toulouse? A neutral viewer will watch this and be impressed with a spectacle in a full house, not a load of fat flat cappers with their tops off.
Being critical of the NRL is simply weird. We are unable to beat the Aussies and have nowhere near the same crowds. Our owners would surely love a chance of this. I mentioned Uzbekistan as a joke but all countries have different approaches and in the same way coaches look at different sports for ideas, that’s a start for a marketing company too.
3500 crowd is not enough to go forward and yes, a new stand is allegedly going up. I’ve been looking at that one since I first went in 1957 so excuse may doubt.
Crigglestone, Eastmoor, Normanton and Stanley should have allocated players for every training session. If they don’t turn up they are fined. This encourages children to watch and drag a parent along with the connections built. Ok, maybe only another 100/200 on the gate but not one single idea will change things.
A sea change of attitude is needed and having been in international shipping for 40 years, I know what change the last 12 months have brought and how industry is adapting to find new supplies, weirdly enough, lots from Eastern Europe!

Get what you're saying but what's wrong with "fat flat cappers with their tops off??"
As far as I'm aware, thats a RL Northern fan trait.......
As for 9000 fans, was that because they were in the final??? Ala 9,000 fans at Wakey v Cas in the Battle of Belle Vue?
And the ground wasn't full either at Toulouse.