Higher speed of play. : Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:44 pm  

As announced by the RFL/SL, the game is & has to be speeded up !
When SL was started, it was faster & exciting, this was brought in to match the Australians in how they played the game, which 1st division & internationals we could not match their fitness at/as full time professional players. We also were accused of playing players that were too old thus slowing down play.
Referees would not allow a 2nd & certainly a 3rd players to drop on a tackled player - results penalties ! Game speed was faster !
As we - our game narrowed the gap to the Australian way, the Aussies brought in a rule chainge, as long as three players did not ground the player & wrestled with him - smothering him to not pass the ball & the referee not shouting held the game slowed & defenders knew to re-set them selves + & or put the player to ground, learn to count seconds allowed by the ref within the rules & peel off thus slowing down the game further.
Training took place on how to wrestle & hold within movement going on, indeed the Aussie coaches here are very, very good at this aspect of the game. All these tactics are in the game which I am not moaning about its just factual.
Enter other events slowing down the game, drop outs & scrums, now to be on a timed basis, a pleasing aspect. Be aware that in Aus players know when to feign injury & do now, play stopped in order to reset defence etc, ref's do not take the risk if they need attention ! This will happen here !
So I am in favour overall in speeding up the game - I do hope that things are even & not one sided, last two home games with Wires, their prop & captain was brilliant at being injured for his team to re-sbere yet as soon as re-set he was the first in at/on a first tackle & the next tackle, some injury, he didn't even go off for a spell !
I do however have an overall concern that we as a team are not renowned for fast Quick Play the balls & 80 minutes full on speed, however top four teams know this & that they have to play 80 mins against us, but that does the trick as their players often declare in post match interviews.
So we as a team need to understand the game has/is moving on !!
I hope we are smart & ready for the new brand 2019 !
Onwards & upwards, up the Trin !

[PopTart]

Re: Higher speed of play. : Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:50 pm  

I don't agree about the last bit.
We do play fast.

We ship the ball to the wing as quick as anyone, though Grix was key to that. Hapshires role at fb will be a big factor.

Equally we have quick ptb of which Wood likes to take advantage but we go for distance instead.
It's a tactic not an essential. If we like attacking inside the 20 then we can do that with big forwards drawing defenders in and getting good yards.
I agree we need to scoot more and create those opportunities but not at all costs.

The essential thing to me is the pass from Randall to Brough to Miller or Hampshire needs to be fast but more importantly accurate, to give centres and wings the advantage they need.

Re: Higher speed of play. : Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:29 pm  

Hi pop tart, I agree with you about woody but as regards Tyler his general speed at play the ball is slower than woodys. But with regard to teams like saints, we are no where near as quick over the 80 mins & sometimes get hit by faster teams in the first quarter & play catch up at their speed, it hurts to say this but we still arnt an 80 minute side as even chester remarked on in his after match summary saying we need to play the full 80 mins. I do however think we are able & can do this. I am not trying to be a moaner but upon observation it's there for all to see, we must step up this season. Nice to hear from you pop tart !

Re: Higher speed of play. : Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:38 pm  

I sometimes think the saying playing the full 80 minutes is a bit of a weird one. Plenty of times for example Saints didn't play for the full 80 but managed to either score when they need to, or when they weren't at their best, they stayed close enough to the opposition that they had a chance of winning. That for me is what the best sides can do and can imo define an 80-minute team. Obviously, there are times where a team gets blown away in the first half and even if you play well in the second, you've left yourselves too much to do. We've done it to teams and we've had it done to us plenty and you have to take those on the chin. But the likes of Wigan, Leeds, and Saints have all been teams over the years that can win, even when not playing at their best, or for the full 80 minutes and that for me is what we need to become better at.

Plus there's that closing close games out thing, where we had 6/7 games where we were a try or less from winning last season and had some really tough losses to take when we'd been generally the better team, that also comes into the playing the full 80-minute talk.
When Brough was signed, CC said that was one of the reasons Brough had been brought in, because we sometimes especially in those games I mentioned, we lacked a proper take charge on-field general, to set up that winning play that will win us those tight games. Hopefully, that's exactly what he can bring to our team.

ATEOTD when your up near the top of table battling it out with the best teams or any team, there's going to be periods of the game where your not on top and the game will generally ebb and flow from one team to the other - Champion teams are those that can always be in a game, or more often than not be in it to win it whether they've been outplayed for big majorities of it.

[PopTart]

Re: Higher speed of play. : Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:15 am  

TrinTrin wrote:

Hi pop tart, I agree with you about woody but as regards Tyler his general speed at play the ball is slower than woodys. But with regard to teams like saints, we are no where near as quick over the 80 mins & sometimes get hit by faster teams in the first quarter & play catch up at their speed, it hurts to say this but we still arnt an 80 minute side as even chester remarked on in his after match summary saying we need to play the full 80 mins. I do however think we are able & can do this. I am not trying to be a moaner but upon observation it's there for all to see, we must step up this season. Nice to hear from you pop tart !

I kind of agree but for me it's concentration and speed of thought/reaction that we lack, not speed of play.
That is often what makes great players great.

As Shifty says Brough could/should be our missing piece that makes it all tick. I really do hope so.

For me it's the same as the fitness discussion.
At Super League level it's not fitness its ball security and discipline.
In this case it's not speed of feet or even speed of hand but speed of thought that makes the difference.

And good to talk to you too.
Have been reading but haven't had a lot to say recently. I'll try and put that right

Re: Higher speed of play. : Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:19 am  

Morning pop tart, a very good post and answer, I love the part about speed of thought, that's what makes players stand out, I would also add the part about decissions, good players & great players view the set opposition defenders and make the right decision call at speed which wins the issue at that moment or winning the game moment. Teams are a blend of thinkers/playmakers & physicality players who carry up & defend rigorously but as the Aussies show you have to be fit to do the extra running from laying deep at play the balls either side of that play point & not play flat at play the ball ! - most important ! Also when defending move up early enough but keep your defence line & slide your defence if they shift the ball quickly, defenders need to read & anticipate to be fully effective, counting the seconds in hold/held when the red shouts etc. All of this then returns to being fit enough to execute.
But I agree with your points of view which makes good discussion with out name being bias or name calling, Happy New year & Still, up the Trin.

Re: Higher speed of play. : Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:02 am  

PopTart wrote:

I kind of agree but for me it's concentration and speed of thought/reaction that we lack, not speed of play.

Or players who have developed the ability to avoid thinking too much and instead, to just play what's in front of them; in management terms, it's described as 'unconscious competence,' and is one of Martin Broadwell's "Four Levels of Teaching:"

1.Unconscious incompetence: The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognize their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.
2.Conscious incompetence Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, they recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.
3.Conscious competence The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.
4.Unconscious competence The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become "second nature" and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.

It looks pretty clear to me that the absolute best players have transcended level 3 and achieved level 4 - they're so well-versed in their skillset and what's going on around them, that what to do next comes naturally - so it happens quickly, without hesitation, and is executed with a high level of accuracy. That's what we've lacked - and for all my criticism, I think Danny Brough achieved that years ago, and probably still has it, even though he's slowing down a bit, and sometimes is so far ahead of the people around him, that they don't keep up.

[PopTart]

Re: Higher speed of play. : Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:41 am  

And I guess that is proven by the fact that some players, with the greatest respect who are not gifted academically, can still appear to be the quickest thinker on the field.
Some people are strategists that can plan a game and all scenarios. Some people are reactionary who have a well trained and extensive list of options to choose from to handle most scenarios.
In the heat of battle you need the second. When someone invents something new you need the first (or more likely they are the ones inventing something new)

Re: Higher speed of play. : Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:51 pm  

Last two posts are spot on, but just to add, there are individuals who are born gifted & discover this gift early whilst having a very high hand to eye co-ordination, some know them as natural players & athletes. These players are sometimes described as " in front of other players " in carrying out plays, I have known many including our greats of all time. There are also gifted players with all those attributes but have a higher or very high physical strength & can force issues. There are also the un - authodox players e.g. Gert Coetzer who had high strength beautiful balance, speed, hand to eye & a side step of both feet/ways. These were not taught they were natural to him. True he would tone them, but they were already within him.
However just as an added note, naturally gifted players can not generally pass on skills, and is not a good coach/teacher, but there are exceptions.
The old adage comes to mind, " those that can, do" " those that cant , teach "
I am looking forward to our new season, I do hope we as a team move upwards & grow.
Up the Trin.