Re: Racism : Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:06 pm  

Big lads mate wrote:

She told me the same

Boom boom.

Re: Racism : Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:55 pm  

I've had a season ticket for Barnsley FC for twenty years and sit in the East (family) stand. I can honestly say I've never heard a racist remark shouted out, although I have heard one or two mildly racist remarks ie "They've got a lot of blackies in their side", or words to that effect passed between fans in adjacent seats.

Re: Racism : Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:41 am  

Redscat wrote:

I have heard one or two mildly racist remarks ie "They've got a lot of blackies in their side", or words to that effect passed between fans in adjacent seats.

That may have been considered 'mildly racist' in the 70's; now it's just *actually* racist.

Re: Racism : Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:52 am  

Although I do hear it at times at rugby grounds, I certainly don't think its rife.

Heard it down at Belle Vue, and it was targeted at the late Roy Powell, also heard it more recently against Jamie Jones Buchanan at Magic Weekend

Re: Racism : Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:51 am  

bren2k wrote:

That may have been considered 'mildly racist' in the 70's; now it's just *actually* racist.

Sorry, Bren, I'm going to have to be a bit of a pedant here and a touch long-winded.

Although I get your point, I really don't like this scattergun approach to these issues, mainly because they are technically incorrect.

Coming from a younger person, said comment would probably be a touch racist in its connotation because in that generation you simply wouldn't use such a term. For older people its more a rather clumsy description of a fact. It's just words if you were to say 'there are a lot of black players in that team' you wouldn't be accused of racism, unless there was an extra sub-text to the comment. It's basically only the use of the slang term 'blackies' that gives it any racist connotation at all.

I'm not having a go at you personally but getting hung up on minor comments like that doesn't achieve anything IMHO, other than annoying and thus polarising peoples attitude. It forces people to get defensive about a throwaway comment probably intended only for the recipient.

The law is very clear on racism. It isn't illegal to hold racist views or for that matter express them, it simply isn't and for good reason, as it's an accusation as open to abuse as the abuse itself. 'Is it because I is black' is a joke line but it's also an accurate example of how the race issue can be twisted.

What is clearly illegal is to incite racial hatred and to discriminate on racial grounds. Redcats comment doesn't do either, it's ugly but it's not racist or certainly not in the eyes of the law. Truth is no one would ever be prosecuted and found guilty of anything for using that term unless of course, it was part of a wider conversation or situation.

What happened in Bulgaria was racist in every way and it's this fanatical level of hatred that we need to confront with every weapon we have, terms like 'blackies' will disappear from common use within another generation. Those left using it will probably be guilty of far more severe forms of racism than that.

I'm sure plenty will disagree with me but its a free country so that's fair enough, it's purely as I see and understand the subject. As I say not having a go, just a bit of context, think I'll go lay down now

Re: Racism : Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:13 pm  

You're quite right in my opinion, Fisherman. The people who do make the remarks I alluded to are generally in the over 70s age group (As am I). Speech of that type was quite acceptable in their younger days and some elderly folk aren't quite as susceptible to change.

Re: Racism : Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:13 am  

Fishermanscap wrote:

I'm not having a go at you personally but getting hung up on minor comments like that doesn't achieve anything IMHO, other than annoying and thus polarising peoples attitude. It forces people to get defensive about a throwaway comment probably intended only for the recipient.

I'm not getting hung up on it either - nor do I think the OP was being racist when he repeated what had been said; just pointing out that thankfully, we've moved on societally and become more aware of what does and doesn't constitute racism. It may not be technically illegal to refer to people in that way, but it is wrong and in most circles, unacceptable - and I'm happy about that.

Re: Racism : Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:35 am  

bren2k wrote:

I'm not getting hung up on it either - nor do I think the OP was being racist when he repeated what had been said; just pointing out that thankfully, we've moved on societally and become more aware of what does and doesn't constitute racism. It may not be technically illegal to refer to people in that way, but it is wrong and in most circles, unacceptable - and I'm happy about that.

Spot on. The law sorts out the serious stuff (hopefully), changes in attitudes throughout society smooth the edges (eventually).

Re: Racism : Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:17 pm  

Fishermanscap wrote:

Spot on. The law sorts out the serious stuff (hopefully), changes in attitudes throughout society smooth the edges (eventually).

With one unfortunate caveat - the way that some people have campaigned for Brexit, by stoking fears about immigration - has sharpened some of those smooth edges; so that casual and overt racism has become much more part of daily discourse than it once was. The unacceptable has become acceptable again, thanks to some political figures, and overtly right wing media outlets like the Daily Mail. Not helped of course by the limp BBC, who in the pursuit of mythical balance, feel that to counter a discussion about the holocaust for example, they have to include a holocaust denier in the conversation.

It feels to me like we've taken some backward steps in recent years.

[PopTart]

Re: Racism : Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:32 pm  

Fishermanscap wrote:

Spot on. The law sorts out the serious stuff (hopefully), changes in attitudes throughout society smooth the edges (eventually).

No one on here is being remotely racist so the discussion is a good one to have.

I have a similar issue with older friends and family using terms that in the 70s were actually a way of being polite about someone who is not from where you are but is not the case now.
"Coloured" is a good example. It used to be not so great to say black and coloured was a softer word, but when you then see it used as signs on gates to go through in America as "Coloured" and "white" it changes things.
Essentially you are saying: anyone who is not the same as me, which is what starts the issues in the first place and so that the language has to change....... you are effectively saying "Not white".
I don't think we should go back and name everyone who was alive in the 70s as racist like some of the modern snowflake society want to do, but equally education of those groups of people is important as on the whole, they don't actually want to offend anyone.

There is a phrase mentioned above: Mildly racist.
Making the point that the phrase used at Barnsley in the example is mildly racist is correct so that is differentiated from a hate crime, but while ever mildly racist is acceptable, it will perpetuate the harder racism that still sadly exists.