[PopTart]

Re: There comes a time. : Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:19 pm  

bramleyrhino wrote:

.................................... I honestly wouldn't blame anyone for not having the motivation to work for someone like that.

..................................................

Then if that is the case (and that's a big if) they should move on rather than take the money and not do the job.

In terms of pay cuts, it was that or the club couldn't survive. If any players thought that wasn't fair, their grievance isn't really with the club. The club couldn't possibly have prepared for the current situation.
They are effectively playing to keep their employer in business so they have jobs next year.

Re: There comes a time. : Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:43 pm  

MOPSEY LIVES ON wrote:

If you noticed the first try yesterday we had the numbers and it was just woeful defence, Quite simply we Can’t defend and that is either poor technique or fitness. This coach is making GOOD players look bad

So lets look at the first try shall we..

We have Aidan Sezer supplying the pass to Chris McQueen...two players with collectively 20 years experience and over 300 games in the NRL...McQueen hit a great line off a nicely timed pass and ran straight through a teenager making only his second career start...how very big of you to call it out as woeful defence....

Re: There comes a time. : Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:53 pm  

PopTart wrote:

Then if that is the case (and that's a big if) they should move on rather than take the money and not do the job.

In terms of pay cuts, it was that or the club couldn't survive. If any players thought that wasn't fair, their grievance isn't really with the club. The club couldn't possibly have prepared for the current situation.
They are effectively playing to keep their employer in business so they have jobs next year.

As I said, I don't blame Carter for taking care of the club finances and using pay cuts and deferrals as a way to do that, but I do think it is fair to question the way he went about it.

In situations such as this you have to bring people with you and show a degree of empathy. When you look at some of Carter's comments in the press and some of his social media posts, I think he lacks that.. The sinister "we'll remember those who objected" was a needless, stupid remark that, to me, showed that he didn't have that empathy. Suggesting to your employees that "their insubordination will be punished" is not how you win people to your cause. Maybe in the days of the dark, setanic mills, but not today.

The comments about Kershaw and the "I wish I was on what he was on at 21" comment was also an ill-judged remark that lacked empathy, as well as relevance.

I've worked for people who have displayed the sorts of behaviours and attitudes that Carter displays. These people are uniformally good at one thing and that is driving good people out of a business. Carter might think that he can get away with it because his rivals aren't recruiting, but he can't expect his approach to be without consequence.

[PopTart]

Re: There comes a time. : Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:02 pm  

I always feel like people are just reacting to bad results when they moan about effort but clearly sometimes you can see things on the field that don't look right.

I still say it is organisation and execution rather than fitness or tactics.

When you look at the stats we had players putting in a mountain of work. More than they should have to which is bound to affect the energy available when they need it later in the game.

If players miss tackles it looks like they are not trying hard enough. When they make 48 and then miss one, I don't think that it the case.
Westerman - made 36 missed 1 97.2% - 8 carries for 57 metres 2 offloads
Pitts - made 45 missed 2 95.7% - 7 carries for 48
Tanginoa - made 26 missed 4 86% - 14 carries for 97 metres
Kopczak - made 33 missed 0 100% 10 carries for 82 metres
Battye made 48 missed 4 92.3% - 21 for 144 metres
Crowther - made 48 missed 1 97.9% - 14 carries for 99 metres
K Wood - made 31 missed 1 96.8% - 2 carries for 41 metres
J Woods - made 31 missed 1 96.8% - 5 carries for 24 metres
Navarette - made 29 missed 3 90.6% - 13 carries for 115 metres

There are a couple of things to look at but there is no lack of effort there, in fact you'd say Crowther, Kopczak and Battye were outstanding in both defence and attack. Pitts in defence and Navarette in attack have good stats too.

However, all that is wasted if when we get to the sixth tackle we just hand the ball over cheaply. Or when the ball goes wide we leave a big hole.
Gigot and Bailey have awful stats in defence. Bailey missed 9 tackles in total but did make another 20. He was stood next to Gigot who missed 5 and made 14. For me Gigot was the one Chester was talking about waving players through. Left Bailey vulnerable until they were moved around.
If Miller isn't available I'd still progress with Bailey and to be honest when he's back I think I'd play Miller at 7 to see how he and Bailey work together.

I still say our 1,6,7 and 9s are if not the issue, they are the fix that isn't working.
Doesn't matter what Chester asks them to do, if they are not finishing the set well or not organising the team properly, then the effort of the others are wasted.

If you put any other teams spine in our team, apart from maybe Hull KR and Salford, our backline would rain in tries. Tupou and Lyne make great yards when they receive a good pass, or even an average pass but so often they are simply taking the ball up from the back. BJB looks like he could get his form back too with 20 carries for 164 metres. (missed 3 tackles

[PopTart]

Re: There comes a time. : Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:03 pm  

bramleyrhino wrote:

As I said, I don't blame Carter for taking care of the club finances and using pay cuts and referrals as a way to do that, but I do think it is fair to question the way he went about it.

In situations such as this you have to bring people with you and show a degree of empathy. When you look at some of Carter's comments in the press and some of his social media posts, I think he lacks that.. The sinister "we'll remember those who objected" was a needless, stupid remark that, to me, showed that he didn't have that empathy,l. Suggesting that to your employees that "their insubordination will be punished" is not how you win people to your cause. Maybe in the days of the dark, setanic mills, but not today.

The comments about Kershaw and the "I wish I was on what he was on at 21" comment was also an ill-judged remark that lacked empathy.

I've worked for people who have displayed the sorts of behaviours and attitudes that Carter displays and these people are informally good at one thing and that is driving good people out of a business. Carter might think that he can get away with it because his rivals aren't recruiting, but he can't expect his approach to be without consequence.

The lacking empathy comment I agree with completely. For all his skills, social media and emotional intelligence aren't high on his list.

Re: There comes a time. : Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:10 pm  

upthecats wrote:

So lets look at the first try shall we..

We have Aidan Sezer supplying the pass to Chris McQueen...two players with collectively 20 years experience and over 300 games in the NRL...McQueen hit a great line off a nicely timed pass and ran straight through a teenager making only his second career start...how very big of you to call it out as woeful defence....

It’s not tiddlywinks or chess it was woeful defence I don’t care who he is or how old he is do your damn job and get off the line and by the way I mentioned no names,

Re: There comes a time. : Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:11 pm  

upthecats wrote:

So lets look at the first try shall we..

We have Aidan Sezer supplying the pass to Chris McQueen...two players with collectively 20 years experience and over 300 games in the NRL...McQueen hit a great line off a nicely timed pass and ran straight through a teenager making only his second career start...how very big of you to call it out as woeful defence....

Come on mate, he mentioned no names - It was woeful defence. Regardless of who the players were, there is probably a point that he should not have been isolated so easily, again comes back to the structure of our defence.

Re: There comes a time. : Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:13 pm  

PopTart wrote:

Westerman - made 36 missed 1 97.2% - 8 carries for 57 metres 2 offloads
Pitts - made 45 missed 2 95.7% - 7 carries for 48
Tanginoa - made 26 missed 4 86% - 14 carries for 97 metres
Kopczak - made 33 missed 0 100% 10 carries for 82 metres
Battye made 48 missed 4 92.3% - 21 for 144 metres
Crowther - made 48 missed 1 97.9% - 14 carries for 99 metres
K Wood - made 31 missed 1 96.8% - 2 carries for 41 metres
J Woods - made 31 missed 1 96.8% - 5 carries for 24 metres
Navarette - made 29 missed 3 90.6% - 13 carries for 115 metres

There are a couple of things to look at but there is no lack of effort there, in fact you'd say Crowther, Kopczak and Battye were outstanding in both defence and attack. Pitts in defence and Navarette in attack have good stats too.

However, all that is wasted if when we get to the sixth tackle we just hand the ball over cheaply. Or when the ball goes wide we leave a big hole.
Gigot and Bailey have awful stats in defence. Bailey missed 9 tackles in total but did make another 20. He was stood next to Gigot who missed 5 and made 14. For me Gigot was the one Chester was talking about waving players through. Left Bailey vulnerable until they were moved around.
If Miller isn't available I'd still progress with Bailey and to be honest when he's back I think I'd play Miller at 7 to see how he and Bailey work together.

I'm not great at stats, but from my memory of the stats that Sky throw up, I make that 31 missed tackles and that sounds like an awful lot.

Re: There comes a time. : Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:15 pm  

PopTart wrote:

I always feel like people are just reacting to bad results when they moan about effort but clearly sometimes you can see things on the field that don't look right.

I still say it is organisation and execution rather than fitness or tactics.

When you look at the stats we had players putting in a mountain of work. More than they should have to which is bound to affect the energy available when they need it later in the game.

If players miss tackles it looks like they are not trying hard enough. When they make 48 and then miss one, I don't think that it the case.
Westerman - made 36 missed 1 97.2% - 8 carries for 57 metres 2 offloads
Pitts - made 45 missed 2 95.7% - 7 carries for 48
Tanginoa - made 26 missed 4 86% - 14 carries for 97 metres
Kopczak - made 33 missed 0 100% 10 carries for 82 metres
Battye made 48 missed 4 92.3% - 21 for 144 metres
Crowther - made 48 missed 1 97.9% - 14 carries for 99 metres
K Wood - made 31 missed 1 96.8% - 2 carries for 41 metres
J Woods - made 31 missed 1 96.8% - 5 carries for 24 metres
Navarette - made 29 missed 3 90.6% - 13 carries for 115 metres

There are a couple of things to look at but there is no lack of effort there, in fact you'd say Crowther, Kopczak and Battye were outstanding in both defence and attack. Pitts in defence and Navarette in attack have good stats too.

However, all that is wasted if when we get to the sixth tackle we just hand the ball over cheaply. Or when the ball goes wide we leave a big hole.
Gigot and Bailey have awful stats in defence. Bailey missed 9 tackles in total but did make another 20. He was stood next to Gigot who missed 5 and made 14. For me Gigot was the one Chester was talking about waving players through. Left Bailey vulnerable until they were moved around.
If Miller isn't available I'd still progress with Bailey and to be honest when he's back I think I'd play Miller at 7 to see how he and Bailey work together.

I still say our 1,6,7 and 9s are if not the issue, they are the fix that isn't working.
Doesn't matter what Chester asks them to do, if they are not finishing the set well or not organising the team properly, then the effort of the others are wasted.

If you put any other teams spine in our team, apart from maybe Hull KR and Salford, our backline would rain in tries. Tupou and Lyne make great yards when they receive a good pass, or even an average pass but so often they are simply taking the ball up from the back. BJB looks like he could get his form back too with 20 carries for 164 metres. (missed 3 tackles

I know you love your stats PT but they don’t tell you the whole story

All the stats are from players who’s first responsibility is the middle channel, with the exception of Pitts.
Now far be it from me to decry the hard work done in the middle channel but with all due respect the largest number of tackles are always made in that channel and they’re often the most direct collisions and not a lot of evasion is present.

What those stats don’t tell you is how static were those players when it came to mapping out from the play the ball toward the edges as the attacks went wider. Maybe they did this or maybe not, experience of the last couple of hundred games would suggest they didn’t do this enough or with any consistency.

Only a thorough analysis of the defensive misses will tell you where the genesis of a missed tackle truly formed and who was ALSO at fault for it.

Re: There comes a time. : Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:19 pm  

I agree some of those comments probably shouldn't have been made...neither should Chester's about players....these guys are under huge pressure though, something us as fans don't have on our shoulders...

Some criticism may be fair on both, but a lot is way over the top for me for two guys who are doing everything in their powers to make a success of things in very trying times and are just getting abuse all over the place....it's the unfortunate world we live in now with social media etc..