Re: Starting line up : Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:51 pm  

imwakefieldtillidie wrote:

I like Tangata's defence, but he doesn't offer enough in attack for me. Based on form at the end of last season I agree that Pitts would be the one to drop out. Bringing Battye in would solve the problem.

People say that but his stats suggest he does, He's like a lot of props, he's no-nonsense, He hits the line hard, takes the tackle, then plays the ball very quickly indeed. If every prop was like Fifita you'd never create anything. Sometimes dave does some wonderful stuff, other times it's huffing and puffing for the sake of it, by which time the opposition's defence has been set, you need a steady Eddie like Tangata, not every prop needs to be a wanna be Solomona imo.

Have to say also that yes Tanginoa is great at making yards but when operating as a prop his ball security seems suspect to me. He drops a fair few when playing SR but that tends to come with playing wide. It's less acceptable at prop.

If we got Battye, I personally would rate the props we have as follows, and I mean purely as props and not including their other facets, in the following order and I'm sure many won't agree.

1st - Battye - out and out prop, just up and at the in a relentless manner, worth his weight in gold.
Joint 2nd - Fifita - when he concentrates he's unstoppable and if he ever did concentrate both on and off the pitch he could be world-class, but he doesn't.
Joint 2nd - Tangata - hugely reliable, a big man who hurts the opposition
3rd - Arona - in a way he's the best of the lot in terms of ability but he's not an out and out prop, he will always try to create, which is good but he is more what they call a middle.
4th - Green - similar to Tangata, another big unit but for me not quite as rugged.
5th - Tanginoa - only because he's always going to be a S/R first and foremost so will probably never get the chance to get into that grove of propping, I've no doubt if he did he'd be number one pretty quickly.

Re: Starting line up : Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:01 pm  

imwakefieldtillidie wrote:

1. Jowitt
2. Johnstone
3. Tupou
4. Lyne
5. Hampshire
6. Miller
7. Lino
8. Fifita
9. Kyle Wood
10. Tanginoa
11. Ashurst
12. Batchelor
13. Crowther

14. Josh Wood
15. Pitts
16. Green
17. Arona

no westerman? He would have been in my top 3 behind Kelepi and Arona in the pack.
I also think Batchelor needs a big year. Can never string more then 3 games without getting injured

Re: Starting line up : Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:09 pm  

vastman wrote:

People say that but his stats suggest he does, He's like a lot of props, he's no-nonsense, He hits the line hard, takes the tackle, then plays the ball very quickly indeed. If every prop was like Fifita you'd never create anything. Sometimes dave does some wonderful stuff, other times it's huffing and puffing for the sake of it, by which time the opposition's defence has been set, you need a steady Eddie like Tangata, not every prop needs to be a wanna be Solomona imo.

Have to say also that yes Tanginoa is great at making yards but when operating as a prop his ball security seems suspect to me. He drops a fair few when playing SR but that tends to come with playing wide. It's less acceptable at prop.

If we got Battye, I personally would rate the props we have as follows, and I mean purely as props and not including their other facets, in the following order and I'm sure many won't agree.

1st - Battye - out and out prop, just up and at the in a relentless manner, worth his weight in gold.
Joint 2nd - Fifita - when he concentrates he's unstoppable and if he ever did concentrate both on and off the pitch he could be world-class, but he doesn't.
Joint 2nd - Tangata - hugely reliable, a big man who hurts the opposition
3rd - Arona - in a way he's the best of the lot in terms of ability but he's not an out and out prop, he will always try to create, which is good but he is more what they call a middle.
4th - Green - similar to Tangata, another big unit but for me not quite as rugged.
5th - Tanginoa - only because he's always going to be a S/R first and foremost so will probably never get the chance to get into that grove of propping, I've no doubt if he did he'd be number one pretty quickly.

I think the effort is there with Tangata, he just lacks the impact of the other five for me so I'd rank him sixth. I think he's fine as a back up/cover, but then again I think anyone taking up a quota spot should be a guaranteed starter. I expected him to kick on in a full time environment, which I don't think he did. It wasn't the best year to try prove yourself so he starts with a clean slate but with a fully fit squad as it stands I think he's battling with Green for the final spot.

Re: Starting line up : Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:13 pm  

Jose wrote:

no westerman? He would have been in my top 3 behind Kelepi and Arona in the pack.
I also think Batchelor needs a big year. Can never string more then 3 games without getting injured

It's amazing what you don't notice, would tend to agree but it would be nice to see Crowther get a few runs out at 13.

Re: Starting line up : Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:15 pm  

Jose wrote:

no westerman? He would have been in my top 3 behind Kelepi and Arona in the pack.
I also think Batchelor needs a big year. Can never string more then 3 games without getting injured

No. Crowther would be the first name on the team sheet for me. Apart from a couple of games, I didn't see what the big thing was with Westerman last year. And I'm not convinced by his attitude.

I know what you mean about Batch, but he finished the season well and on forn he has to be in for me.

Re: Starting line up : Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:27 pm  

I’d still have Crowther in. I think westy is an organiser and a talker. Maybe too much at times. I also think he takes tough carries and tackles well. Would be in my 17 every time. Also has great ball skills. But that’s what it’s about. Opinions.

My line up
Jowitt
Senior
Lyne
Tupou
Johnstone
Miller
Lino
Arona
Crowther
Tanginoa
Ashurst
Pitts
Westerman
Kyle wood
Fifita
Hopefully Battye
Green/tangata/or maybe another prop if we can find

Crowther start at 9 then move to loose to spell westy.
Kelepi to move to second row to spell Pitts and Ashurst.
Could easily have Rocky instead of max also.

Re: Starting line up : Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:43 pm  

Jose wrote:

I’d still have Crowther in. I think westy is an organiser and a talker. Maybe too much at times. I also think he takes tough carries and tackles well. Would be in my 17 every time. Also has great ball skills. But that’s what it’s about. Opinions.

My line up
Jowitt
Senior
Lyne
Tupou
Johnstone
Miller
Lino
Arona
Crowther
Tanginoa
Ashurst
Pitts
Westerman
Kyle wood
Fifita
Hopefully Battye
Green/tangata/or maybe another prop if we can find

Crowther start at 9 then move to loose to spell westy.
Kelepi to move to second row to spell Pitts and Ashurst.
Could easily have Rocky instead of max also.

I don't get this Crowther at 9. He'd be the first name on the team sheet for me, and I'd build the side around him, but his distribution from dummy half is poor, and he lacks speed off the mark that all good hookers have. He's covered the role well in tough times, but we play our best rugby when Kyle is on the pitch.

Re: Starting line up : Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:49 pm  

imwakefieldtillidie wrote:

No. Crowther would be the first name on the team sheet for me. Apart from a couple of games, I didn't see what the big thing was with Westerman last year. And I'm not convinced by his attitude.

I know what you mean about Batch, but he finished the season well and on forn he has to be in for me.

Can't agree. I had huge doubts about Westerman, in fact, I thought it was a disaster in the making, However, he been pure class, gives 100% and lead from the front. His best years are possibly behind him, though I'd say he's now far more mentally mature. The only issue with Westerman is that sometimes he's too far ahead of his teammates. He's a much better 13 than Crowther is at the moment, let's not get carried away. What Crowther should and probably is doing is learn from him and in a few years, Westy will just be a memory, as it should be.

Re: Starting line up : Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:30 pm  

Top of my head

Jowitt
Senior
Lyne
Topou
Johnstone
Miller
Lino
Arona
Josh Wood
Fifita
Tanginoa
Ashurst
Westerman

Crowther
Tangata / Green
Pitts
Kyle Wood

Considering who I’ve left out maybe things aren’t all that bad. Still think we’re light a decent prop which would allow us to start Fifita from the bench but wouldn’t want to run with Green or Tangata as a starter.

Re: Starting line up : Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:39 pm  

wakefieldwall wrote:

Top of my head

Jowitt
Johnstone
Lyne
Topou
Johnstone
Miller
Lino
Arona
Josh Wood
Fifita
Tanginoa
Ashurst
Westerman

Crowther
Tangata / Green
Pitts
Kyle Wood

Considering who I’ve left out maybe things aren’t all that bad. Still think we’re light a decent prop which would allow us to start Fifita from the bench but wouldn’t want to run with Green or Tangata as a starter.

Two Johnstone’s mate, try again