Re: There is no shame or self pride. : Mon May 03, 2021 9:33 am  

PopTart wrote:

I absolutely agree.
I just think the solution is not to just sack Chester. There is much more to it.

I don't so much think they are under performing as individuals. I think they are putting effort in and many are performing at exactly their capability.

Adding some key players will pull up the team performance.
Expecting Kershaw to be TJ will just end in disappointment.

Not expecting Kershaw or Kay to be T J far from it . But I do not expect them to put there team under pressure by making basics mistakes When Hampshire had to play on the wing he never looked out of place ,infact won us a few games .Can not say the same about Kay or Kershaw at present

Re: There is no shame or self pride. : Mon May 03, 2021 9:51 am  

PopTart wrote:

I absolutely agree.
I just think the solution is not to just sack Chester. There is much more to it.

I don't so much think they are under performing as individuals. I think they are putting effort in and many are performing at exactly their capability.

Adding some key players will pull up the team performance.
Expecting Kershaw to be TJ will just end in disappointment.

I agree about Chester now, but he should have been relieved of his duties in the off season. I have no problems with the players effort and attitude this season so far, it has been much improved, but when I say they are underperforming I mean they can play better, less errors, better decision making, being ruthless, better discipline, for me none of that has improved yet! Most of the few tries we have scored this season have been individual efforts, we create very little as a unit, we just offer very little threat with ball in hand, and that has to come down to the coach(es)

The next 4 games are massive, and are going to give us some indication of how things are going to unfold later on, and because we are so poor with the ball, i'm worried! We are in a hole and that digging out process has to start against Leeds, who are themselves going to be nervous and under pressure, let's see what we have to offer.......

Re: There is no shame or self pride. : Mon May 03, 2021 11:00 am  

Kirmudgeonlyisback wrote:

//

Point I was trying to make was your analysis was quite misleading. As regards where you measure from that’s purely subjective - however you measure it this last two seasons are worst we’ve had in modern era 100 percent loss rate in current season equals relegation and finishing bottom

Are you suggesting finding the average finishing position from the last 55 seasons is somehow cherry picking data?
Choosing the last two years, or even worse 20% of the current season, is truly cherry picking and hugely biased.

My point was that in my lifetime we have generally been the 10th best team in the competition. Even if your take the median to remove any outliers, your still get 10th, the mode is also 10.

The last 2 seasons we had 5/19 and 11/29 wins giving 16/48 or 33% win rate. Compare this to 2015/2014 where we had 3/23 and 10/27 making 13/50 or 26% win rate. so no, the last 2 seasons have not been the worst in the modern era.

When I get some time I'll maybe complete the data back to the beginning of RL, but I wouldn't expect any big changes.

Upshot is, we have been consistently the 10th best team in the northern hemisphere and anything above that is a bonus. Having only 12 teams in the top flight puts us in jeopardy and fundamental change will be required to get us above that lowly average.

Re: There is no shame or self pride. : Mon May 03, 2021 1:48 pm  

There you go data from 1895 to present:



The red line is a 5-year rolling average - currently the best we've been since the 70s.
Green dots are lower division
Yellow dots are Yorkshire league only
Orange dots are wartime emergency league
We've only finished top once (1944 wartime emergency league)
Our most successful decade was of course 1959 to 1968 (cherry picked) with an average position of 4.1, coming 2nd three times but winning the championship twice (via play-offs)


Guess what - average league position over 126 years:
mean = 11.0, mode = 10.0, median = 10.0

(I've been generous and included Yorkshire league placings even though there were effectively 2 pools)

Re: There is no shame or self pride. : Mon May 03, 2021 1:58 pm  

coco the fullback wrote:

There you go data from 1895 to present:
EDIT

Nicely done there. That's a brilliant set of data. Saved a copy

Re: There is no shame or self pride. : Mon May 03, 2021 2:47 pm  

newgroundb4wakey wrote:

They said that about Lee Radford.

I agree

When he gets a job for a top club please let us know

Re: There is no shame or self pride. : Mon May 03, 2021 3:10 pm  

coco the fullback wrote:

There you go data from 1895 to present:



The red line is a 5-year rolling average - currently the best we've been since the 70s.
Green dots are lower division
Yellow dots are Yorkshire league only
Orange dots are wartime emergency league
We've only finished top once (1944 wartime emergency league)
Our most successful decade was of course 1959 to 1968 (cherry picked) with an average position of 4.1, coming 2nd three times but winning the championship twice (via play-offs)


Guess what - average league position over 126 years:
mean = 11.0, mode = 10.0, median = 10.0

(I've been generous and included Yorkshire league placings even though there were effectively 2 pools)

Coco you can churn out all the data you want from the very beginning if you want but that only tells half a story .The players we have at our disposal are far better equipped to produce a much better standard of rugby than ever their predecessors were .Diet ,fitness ,conditioning,full time ,and yet what I see is a team lacking at times the very basic core skills of RL, which is seen all over the north on a weekend from professional to amateur . If people are happy to see players week in week out making silly unforced errors and blame it on them been of poor quality ,get out and watch some amateur games and see the quality they produce on a regular basis . I truly hope we pull through this ,but to put the blame squarely on our supposedly average players and not to a big part on the coaching set up truly baffles me .

Re: There is no shame or self pride. : Mon May 03, 2021 7:10 pm  

Kettykat wrote:

Coco you can churn out all the data you want from the very beginning if you want but that only tells half a story .The players we have at our disposal are far better equipped to produce a much better standard of rugby than ever their predecessors were .Diet ,fitness ,conditioning,full time , .

The problem is, so are everyone else's.

Re: There is no shame or self pride. : Tue May 04, 2021 3:50 am  

Wollo-Wollo-Wollo-Wayoo wrote:

The problem is, so are everyone else's.

The problem is wollo as I see it ,we have, when injuries permit one of the most settled squads in super league, with one incoming ,but to watch them Play they look like a squad that has been thrown together . I get that we aren’t going to match the big boys on a regular basis ,but we’ll never get near if we don’t at least aspire to be like them .I don’t knock my home town team lightly but even the most conservative of us must see we aren’t playing to our potential and have not been for quite some time . My memory is not what it used to be but I can’t remember a time when I’ve seen our team make so many unforced errors and attack so poorly . I hope it’s just a confidence thing and we get back on the horse real soon ,as the games are passing us by and I fear for the club if it ends up being a shoot out at the end .

Re: There is no shame or self pride. : Tue May 04, 2021 8:08 am  

Got to admit we got the Players (,apart from a 9) but the way we have been Coached over the last 2 year Think we would struggle to be in the top 4 of the championship .Some thing as got to change