RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
22 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - There is no shame or self pride.
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Sun May 02, 2021 9:30 am  

Wildmoggy wrote:
Wildmoggy Cheeky half-back
Cheeky half-back

Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 12:25 pm
Posts: 716
PopTart wrote:
My point about the squad is that people keep saying our squad has enough quality to do better, and they are right, but we rarely get the best on the field..... So to compare with Leigh we need to compare the players available to play and when you do there difference isn't so much.


Ok i'll tell you what, you put on here the 17 you want playing week in week out to give us the best chance of winning, because to me apart from 3 or 4 at their absolute best, the rest are all pretty much the same ability wise. You have got to get your head around the fact that Ashurst & Tupou for example are not the same players as they were 3 years ago, injuries and age have seen to that. You mentioned a full back playing stand off the other night, a player who may I remind you Chester said last season he was going to give him a long run at 6 in the team........what happened to that masterplan? Did he not get mom at Salford before lockdown playing stand off? To me having Jowitt instead of Miller at 6 is not hindering the team from winning games, not having Battye & Kyle Wood for the first few games did not stop us winning those games etc, etc. If he has no faith in Kershaw, why is he playing him? He has options, Tupou or Lyne on the wing, Arundel and Croft available all season. I can't honestly now tell you what our first choice 17 is now, and like I said it doesn't really matter anyway because most of the squad are of similar ability like I've already said!! As a group, a squad, we are underperforming, and have been for almost 2 years, if you disagree with that, fair enough, that's your opinon.
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Sun May 02, 2021 9:56 am  

alegend wrote:
alegend Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:32 pm
Posts: 1262
Wildmoggy wrote:
Ok i'll tell you what, you put on here the 17 you want playing week in week out to give us the best chance of winning, because to me apart from 3 or 4 at their absolute best, the rest are all pretty much the same ability wise. You have got to get your head around the fact that Ashurst & Tupou for example are not the same players as they were 3 years ago, injuries and age have seen to that. You mentioned a full back playing stand off the other night, a player who may I remind you Chester said last season he was going to give him a long run at 6 in the team........what happened to that masterplan? Did he not get mom at Salford before lockdown playing stand off? To me having Jowitt instead of Miller at 6 is not hindering the team from winning games, not having Battye & Kyle Wood for the first few games did not stop us winning those games etc, etc. If he has no faith in Kershaw, why is he playing him? He has options, Tupou or Lyne on the wing, Arundel and Croft available all season. I can't honestly now tell you what our first choice 17 is now, and like I said it doesn't really matter anyway because most of the squad are of similar ability like I've already said!! As a group, a squad, we are underperforming, and have been for almost 2 years, if you disagree with that, fair enough, that's your opinon.

We are underperforming ,we have been very lucky to stay in S L over the last two years .Compared to the rest of the teams in S L we are playing on a different planet A much smaller one .In fairness I can see what difference the new coaches have made.
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Sun May 02, 2021 10:27 am  
coco the fullback User avatar
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:48 pm
Posts: 2818
Location: Hiding behind a palm tree in the mountains
Kettykat wrote:
If your happy with our performances of late that’s fair enough ,you’ll get what you deserve with the team serving up this poor quality rugby, and that will be poor gate attendances ,lower quality players as a Direct result and a slow demise of, and I’ll word this different ,a once proud club , if that suits you better .
I’m not happy with our performances,I pay my season ticket and I voice my opinion simple as .
This club was a once great and proud club and I for one would like us to take positive steps to get us back there .Instead we are supposed to support without question mediocrity or we are classed not loyal . What a load of bull that is ,if I see players not playing for our club with pride and passion I’ll voice my opinions ,just as I will when they are playing well .Time for changes, as all we have to look forwards is a slow demise with a dwindling support base and even less quality than we already have . Sad times indeed when I see more passion from my 12 year old grandson playing RL than some of our squad


Fair enough. You've certainly earned your right to have an opinion and you are entitled to it.
I was just wondering how you were measuring this 'pride' that the players used to have but don't have now?
Nostalgia can play an awful lot of tricks on your memory. Which players are not showing pride and passion? We are going through a tough phase, but we've been through much worse and come out the other end. I don't think anyone is happy with mediocrity, but rising above that is very difficult and takes time and money. I have not yet written off this year. If we get that first win we could get on a roll. Equally, it could go pear shaped and we get relegated. It's too early to tell.

The facts suggest that we have performed better over the last 5 years than we have at any point in the last 55.
Average finishing position over 55 years is 10.6, we have finished higher than that in every year that Chester has been in charge with an average of 7.8. The only other time we've done that is 1971 to 75 where we had an average of 7.2. Other than the 60s when we were arguably the best team in the world, when have we ever been more than mediocre?

We all want our club to be successful, but we have never been a consistently top 8 club since the 60s. It is different now that the game is fully professional and the stakes and jeopardy is much higher. In professional sport, money is king, until we get facilities that enable an increase in income, we'll never get there.
We are on the brink of that step forwards, don't give up now.
Image
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Sun May 02, 2021 11:22 am  

User avatarPopTart wrote:
PopTart User avatar
100% League Network
100% League Network

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:10 am
Posts: 14623
Location: wakefield
Wildmoggy wrote:
Ok i'll tell you what, you put on here the 17 you want playing week in week out to give us the best chance of winning, because to me apart from 3 or 4 at their absolute best, the rest are all pretty much the same ability wise. You have got to get your head around the fact that Ashurst & Tupou for example are not the same players as they were 3 years ago, injuries and age have seen to that. You mentioned a full back playing stand off the other night, a player who may I remind you Chester said last season he was going to give him a long run at 6 in the team........what happened to that masterplan? Did he not get mom at Salford before lockdown playing stand off? To me having Jowitt instead of Miller at 6 is not hindering the team from winning games, not having Battye & Kyle Wood for the first few games did not stop us winning those games etc, etc. If he has no faith in Kershaw, why is he playing him? He has options, Tupou or Lyne on the wing, Arundel and Croft available all season. I can't honestly now tell you what our first choice 17 is now, and like I said it doesn't really matter anyway because most of the squad are of similar ability like I've already said!! As a group, a squad, we are underperforming, and have been for almost 2 years, if you disagree with that, fair enough, that's your opinon.


I absolutely agree.
I just think the solution is not to just sack Chester. There is much more to it.

I don't so much think they are under performing as individuals. I think they are putting effort in and many are performing at exactly their capability.

Adding some key players will pull up the team performance.
Expecting Kershaw to be TJ will just end in disappointment.
A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Sun May 02, 2021 12:49 pm  
Kirmudgeonlyisback Eddie Hemmings's Wig
Eddie Hemmings's Wig

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:28 pm
Posts: 194
coco the fullback wrote:
Fair enough. You've certainly earned your right to have an opinion and you are entitled to it.

The facts suggest that we have performed better over the last 5 years than we have at any point in the last 55.
Average finishing position over 55 years is 10.6, we have finished higher than that in every year that Chester has been in charge with an average of 7.8. The only other time we've done that is 1971 to 75 where we had an average of 7.2. Other than the 60s when we were arguably the best team in the world, when have we ever been more than mediocre?

We all want our club to be successful, but we have never been a consistently top 8 club since the 60s. It is different now that the game is fully professional and the stakes and jeopardy is much higher. In professional sport, money is king, until we get facilities that enable an increase in income, we'll never get there.
We are on the brink of that step forwards, don't give up now.


Correct me if I m wrong but pre super league wasn’t there 16 clubs in the top flight which would mean that we were 5.4 from the bottom of the table

Which we would all be grateful for in the super league era as we would have consistently ended in top 8, a position that seems beyond our realistic aspirations now.

As regards the team - we are pretty much putting out a full strength team bar 3 or 4 players which is just normal in the modern era. When we played leeds apart from wood and battye we had our whole squad to pick from, A massive step forward ? That would be a win! Or even to win a second half.

Maybe Chester is just unlucky on the pitch, but I don’t think there has been a coach in the modern era that has such a bad win rate generally and certainly that hasn’t either resigned or been sacked on back of it.

Haven’t even bothered watching the Catalan game sadly with the reduction in season ticket sales, drop in sky money I d be surprised if we even start next season if we don’t give something for the average supporter to get behind
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Sun May 02, 2021 1:25 pm  
coco the fullback User avatar
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:48 pm
Posts: 2818
Location: Hiding behind a palm tree in the mountains
Kirmudgeonlyisback wrote:
Correct me if I m wrong but pre super league wasn’t there 16 clubs in the top flight which would mean that we were 5.4 from the bottom of the table

Which we would all be grateful for in the super league era as we would have consistently ended in top 8, a position that seems beyond our realistic aspirations now.

As regards the team - we are pretty much putting out a full strength team bar 3 or 4 players which is just normal in the modern era. When we played leeds apart from wood and battye we had our whole squad to pick from, A massive step forward ? That would be a win! Or even to win a second half.

Maybe Chester is just unlucky on the pitch, but I don’t think there has been a coach in the modern era that has such a bad win rate generally and certainly that hasn’t either resigned or been sacked on back of it.

Haven’t even bothered watching the Catalan game sadly with the reduction in season ticket sales, drop in sky money I d be surprised if we even start next season if we don’t give something for the average supporter to get behind

????
League tables are measured from the top not the bottom.
Pre-73 there were 30 teams all in one division but being 20 from bottom still makes us the 10th best team.
Image
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Sun May 02, 2021 3:27 pm  
Kirmudgeonlyisback Eddie Hemmings's Wig
Eddie Hemmings's Wig

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:28 pm
Posts: 194
coco the fullback wrote:
????
League tables are measured from the top not the bottom.
Pre-73 there were 30 teams all in one division but being 20 from bottom still makes us the 10th best team.

//

Point I was trying to make was your analysis was quite misleading. As regards where you measure from that’s purely subjective - however you measure it this last two seasons are worst we’ve had in modern era 100 percent loss rate in current season equals relegation and finishing bottom
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Mon May 03, 2021 7:52 am  

Luppylad wrote:
Luppylad Cheeky half-back
Cheeky half-back

Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:50 pm
Posts: 829
PopTart wrote:
I absolutely agree.
I just think the solution is not to just sack Chester. There is much more to it.

I don't so much think they are under performing as individuals. I think they are putting effort in and many are performing at exactly their capability.

Adding some key players will pull up the team performance.
Expecting Kershaw to be TJ will just end in disappointment.


I like you dont think the solution is to just sack CC.the issues CC has brought isnt at this moment in time fixable.for me the biggest issues are signings and retentions for what ever reasons these have been overall poor for the last 2 years and will give CC sme slack for this with the current financial situation within the world due to covid.the issue is we cant just sack and bring in new players.that said this makes the decision to use player budgets on a extra coach baffeling.

That said we may be getting to the point where we need to try somthing different the clubs future in sl is hanging by a thread.we have seen it before example when tony smith came in he wasnt the greatest of coaches but results did dramatically improve for a short time.could the same happen again who knows.plus we have the a fifita money however big or small that is waiting to be spent which its important we do.

For me the this season is now just about finishing 11th anything else would be a shock and a bonus.but thats when and where we are quite fortunate as in alot of players and coaches are out of contract come the end of the seasonand should we stay in sl the opportunity is there to revamp both the playing squad and coaching set up.
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Mon May 03, 2021 8:24 am  

User avatarSchunter wrote:
Schunter User avatar
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:12 pm
Posts: 4902
coco the fullback wrote:
Fair enough. You've certainly earned your right to have an opinion and you are entitled to it.
I was just wondering how you were measuring this 'pride' that the players used to have but don't have now?
Nostalgia can play an awful lot of tricks on your memory. Which players are not showing pride and passion? We are going through a tough phase, but we've been through much worse and come out the other end. I don't think anyone is happy with mediocrity, but rising above that is very difficult and takes time and money. I have not yet written off this year. If we get that first win we could get on a roll. Equally, it could go pear shaped and we get relegated. It's too early to tell.

The facts suggest that we have performed better over the last 5 years than we have at any point in the last 55.
Average finishing position over 55 years is 10.6, we have finished higher than that in every year that Chester has been in charge with an average of 7.8. The only other time we've done that is 1971 to 75 where we had an average of 7.2. Other than the 60s when we were arguably the best team in the world, when have we ever been more than mediocre?

We all want our club to be successful, but we have never been a consistently top 8 club since the 60s. It is different now that the game is fully professional and the stakes and jeopardy is much higher. In professional sport, money is king, until we get facilities that enable an increase in income, we'll never get there.
We are on the brink of that step forwards, don't give up now.


An excellent, well argued post to be sure. What I would say though is that breaking down the last 5 years is necessary to explain the current disgruntlement of what is (seemingly/possibly) a large proportion of the fan base. It is our performances and success rate since May 3rd 2019 when we beat Shudds and in the league at that point we were W8 L6 in the SL table. Since then we are W8 L30 in SL games up to this point. That is a huge turnaround in fortunes and despite, IMO, the players clearly showing desire and effort, we are unable to win a game and look uncoached at times with the ball in hand. And similarly many would say on paper in the last few years we have had the best team we have had for many a year. I think this is where the ire is originating from.
'That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party.... So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin'
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Mon May 03, 2021 9:06 am  
coco the fullback User avatar
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:48 pm
Posts: 2818
Location: Hiding behind a palm tree in the mountains
Schunter wrote:
An excellent, well argued post to be sure. What I would say though is that breaking down the last 5 years is necessary to explain the current disgruntlement of what is (seemingly/possibly) a large proportion of the fan base. It is our performances and success rate since May 3rd 2019 when we beat Shudds and in the league at that point we were W8 L6 in the SL table. Since then we are W8 L30 in SL games up to this point. That is a huge turnaround in fortunes and despite, IMO, the players clearly showing desire and effort, we are unable to win a game and look uncoached at times with the ball in hand. And similarly many would say on paper in the last few years we have had the best team we have had for many a year. I think this is where the ire is originating from.


I would agree with all that, but I'm still willing to accept that the last 2 seasons' poor performances were down to very special circumstances (massive injury crisis in mid 2019 - ok before and after - and then in 2020 Covid focus was just on completing fixtures by any means to satisfy the Sky contract.- lost focus on actually winning as with no relegation it didn't really matter). Even this year's poor start has some mitigation.
The situation is not really acceptable, but is understandable. Last year's seemingly random panic buying was a bit strange too. For all this, for me, Chester gets to the middle of the season to win 4 or 5 games, if not we still have time to recover (hopefully).
Image
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: alegend, charlie, cheshirecat57, coco the fullback, cosmicat, djcool, JINJER, lampyboy, LG83, LyndsayGill, pamsboy, PopTart, sandcat20, Teltry, Trojan Horse, Willzay, Wollo-Wollo-Wollo-Wayoo, wotsupcas, wrencat1873 and 198 guests

Quick Reply



Subject:
Message:

   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.

Return to Wakefield Trinity


When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
YOU HAVE RL CHAT OFF
RLFANS Match Centre
Sat 25th Sep
NRL RND: 28 Melbourne6-10Penrith
CH RND: 23 Batley22-10Bradford
CH RND: 23 Halifax24-20Whitehaven
Fri 24th Sep
SL RND: 26 Warrington0-19Hull KR
NRL RND: 28 Souths36-16Manly
Thu 23rd Sep
SL RND: 26 Wigan0-8Leeds
Sun 19th Sep
SL RND: 25 Huddersfield42-24Leigh
CH RND: 22 Bradford22-36Whitehaven
CH RND: 22 Dewsbury21-14Oldham
CH RND: 22 Featherstone78-10Sheffield
CH RND: 22 Halifax10-12Batley
CH RND: 22 Swinton16-26Widnes
CH RND: 22 York30-22LondonB
L1 RND: 22 Doncaster31-10Hunslet
WSL RND: 16 St.HelensW52-0WiganW
WSL RND: 16 YorkW28-14CastlefordW
Sat 18th Sep
NRL RND: 27 Penrith8-6Parramatta
CH RND: 22 Newcastle12-82Toulouse
L1 RND: 22 Crusaders14-28Keighley
Fri 17th Sep
SL RND: 25 Leeds36-12Hull KR
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
National Rugby League 2021 ROUND : 25
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Melbourne 24 815 316 499 42
Penrith 24 640 280 360 42
Souths 24 775 453 322 40
Manly 24 744 492 252 32
Sydney 24 636 475 161 32
Parramatta 24 566 457 109 30
Newcastle 24 428 571 -143 24
Gold Coast 24 568 553 15 20
 
Cronulla 24 512 556 -44 20
Canberra 24 481 578 -97 20
St.George 24 474 616 -142 16
NZ Warriors 24 453 624 -171 16
Wests 24 500 714 -214 16
Brisbane 24 446 695 -249 14
NQL Cowboys 24 460 748 -288 14
Canterbury 24 340 710 -370 6
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Super League XXVI ROUND : 25
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Catalans 23 688 398 290 38 172.86 82.61
St.Helens 21 548 229 319 32 239.30 76.19
Warrington 21 588 354 234 31 166.10 73.81
Wigan 25 387 385 2 30 100.52 60
Leeds 24 556 440 116 26 126.36 54.17
Hull KR 20 497 458 39 20 108.52 50
 
Castleford 23 439 552 -113 22 79.53 47.83
Hull FC 21 409 476 -67 17 85.92 40.48
Huddersfield 24 460 516 -56 18 89.15 37.50
Wakefield 24 482 548 -66 18 87.96 37.50
Salford 22 402 586 -184 14 68.60 31.82
Leigh 22 356 870 -514 4 40.92 9.09
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Championship 2021 ROUND : 20
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Toulouse 13 616 112 504 26 550 100
Featherstone 19 817 254 563 34 321.65 94.74
Halifax 19 512 323 189 26 158.51 68.42
Bradford 18 483 455 28 24 106.15 66.67
LondonB 18 504 499 5 21 101 63.89
Batley 19 525 370 155 24 141.89 63.16
 
Whitehaven 20 447 496 -49 21 90.12 52.50
York 19 470 455 15 16 103.30 42.11
Widnes 19 458 509 -51 15 89.98 39.47
Newcastle 18 381 521 -140 13 73.13 36.11
Sheffield 18 382 553 -171 13 69.08 36.11
Dewsbury 19 308 570 -262 13 54.04 34.21
Oldham 19 270 691 -421 5 39.07 13.16
Swinton 20 354 719 -365 3 49.24 7.50
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred League One 2021 ROUND : 22
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Barrow 17 596 275 321 27 216.73 79.41
Workington 15 471 310 161 21 151.94 70
Doncaster 18 503 400 103 24 125.75 66.67
Keighley 19 640 399 241 25 160.40 65.79
Crusaders 18 553 438 115 22 126.26 61.11
Hunslet 19 572 466 106 20 122.75 52.63
 
Rochdale 17 505 488 17 17 103.48 50
Coventry 17 407 460 -53 12 88.48 35.29
LondonS 18 292 577 -285 7 50.61 19.44
West Wales 18 208 896 -688 1 23.21 2.78
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Womens Super League 2021 ROUND : 9
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
St.HelensW 7 370 36 334 12 1,027.78 85.71
WiganW 6 222 64 158 10 346.88 83.33
YorkW 6 186 102 84 8 182.35 66.67
CastlefordW 6 166 96 70 8 172.92 66.67
BradfordW 8 158 264 -106 6 59.85 37.50
Hudds W 7 104 288 -184 4 36.11 28.57
 
Wire W 8 150 334 -184 4 44.91 25
FeatherstoneW 8 122 338 -216 4 36.09 25
LeedsW 7 364 38 326 14 957.89 100
WakefieldW 7 50 332 -282 0 15.06 0
RLFANS Recent Posts




X
::::::::