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Re: There is no shame or self pride. Mon May 03, 2021 9:33 am  

alegend wrote:
alegend Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:32 pm
Posts: 1259
PopTart wrote:
I absolutely agree.
I just think the solution is not to just sack Chester. There is much more to it.

I don't so much think they are under performing as individuals. I think they are putting effort in and many are performing at exactly their capability.

Adding some key players will pull up the team performance.
Expecting Kershaw to be TJ will just end in disappointment.

Not expecting Kershaw or Kay to be T J far from it . But I do not expect them to put there team under pressure by making basics mistakes When Hampshire had to play on the wing he never looked out of place ,infact won us a few games .Can not say the same about Kay or Kershaw at present
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Mon May 03, 2021 9:51 am  

Wildmoggy wrote:
Wildmoggy Cheeky half-back
Cheeky half-back

Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 12:25 pm
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PopTart wrote:
I absolutely agree.
I just think the solution is not to just sack Chester. There is much more to it.

I don't so much think they are under performing as individuals. I think they are putting effort in and many are performing at exactly their capability.

Adding some key players will pull up the team performance.
Expecting Kershaw to be TJ will just end in disappointment.


I agree about Chester now, but he should have been relieved of his duties in the off season. I have no problems with the players effort and attitude this season so far, it has been much improved, but when I say they are underperforming I mean they can play better, less errors, better decision making, being ruthless, better discipline, for me none of that has improved yet! Most of the few tries we have scored this season have been individual efforts, we create very little as a unit, we just offer very little threat with ball in hand, and that has to come down to the coach(es)

The next 4 games are massive, and are going to give us some indication of how things are going to unfold later on, and because we are so poor with the ball, i'm worried! We are in a hole and that digging out process has to start against Leeds, who are themselves going to be nervous and under pressure, let's see what we have to offer....... :BOW:
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Mon May 03, 2021 11:00 am  
coco the fullback User avatar
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Kirmudgeonlyisback wrote:
//

Point I was trying to make was your analysis was quite misleading. As regards where you measure from that’s purely subjective - however you measure it this last two seasons are worst we’ve had in modern era 100 percent loss rate in current season equals relegation and finishing bottom


Are you suggesting finding the average finishing position from the last 55 seasons is somehow cherry picking data?
Choosing the last two years, or even worse 20% of the current season, is truly cherry picking and hugely biased.

My point was that in my lifetime we have generally been the 10th best team in the competition. Even if your take the median to remove any outliers, your still get 10th, the mode is also 10.

The last 2 seasons we had 5/19 and 11/29 wins giving 16/48 or 33% win rate. Compare this to 2015/2014 where we had 3/23 and 10/27 making 13/50 or 26% win rate. so no, the last 2 seasons have not been the worst in the modern era.

When I get some time I'll maybe complete the data back to the beginning of RL, but I wouldn't expect any big changes.

Upshot is, we have been consistently the 10th best team in the northern hemisphere and anything above that is a bonus. Having only 12 teams in the top flight puts us in jeopardy and fundamental change will be required to get us above that lowly average.
Image
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Mon May 03, 2021 1:48 pm  
coco the fullback User avatar
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Location: Hiding behind a palm tree in the mountains
There you go data from 1895 to present:

Image

The red line is a 5-year rolling average - currently the best we've been since the 70s.
Green dots are lower division
Yellow dots are Yorkshire league only
Orange dots are wartime emergency league
We've only finished top once (1944 wartime emergency league)
Our most successful decade was of course 1959 to 1968 (cherry picked) with an average position of 4.1, coming 2nd three times but winning the championship twice (via play-offs)


Guess what - average league position over 126 years:
mean = 11.0, mode = 10.0, median = 10.0

(I've been generous and included Yorkshire league placings even though there were effectively 2 pools)
Image
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Mon May 03, 2021 1:58 pm  
Wollo-Wollo-Wollo-Wayoo User avatar
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coco the fullback wrote:
There you go data from 1895 to present:
EDIT


Nicely done there. That's a brilliant set of data. Saved a copy :D
This world was never meant for one as beautiful as me.

WTRLC 2012 to 2014 "The wasted years"

Magic Weekend "Whipping Boys" 2013, 2014 & 2015

2017 - The year the dream disappeared under Grix's right foot.

2018 - The FinniChezz Bromance

2019 - The return of the Prodigal Son.

2020 - Keeping the faith.
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Mon May 03, 2021 2:47 pm  

musson wrote:
musson Free-scoring winger
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Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:26 pm
Posts: 1526
newgroundb4wakey wrote:
They said that about Lee Radford. :wink:



I agree

When he gets a job for a top club please let us know :lol:
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Mon May 03, 2021 3:10 pm  

User avatarKettykat wrote:
Kettykat User avatar
Cheeky half-back
Cheeky half-back

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:07 am
Posts: 952
coco the fullback wrote:
There you go data from 1895 to present:

Image

The red line is a 5-year rolling average - currently the best we've been since the 70s.
Green dots are lower division
Yellow dots are Yorkshire league only
Orange dots are wartime emergency league
We've only finished top once (1944 wartime emergency league)
Our most successful decade was of course 1959 to 1968 (cherry picked) with an average position of 4.1, coming 2nd three times but winning the championship twice (via play-offs)


Guess what - average league position over 126 years:
mean = 11.0, mode = 10.0, median = 10.0

(I've been generous and included Yorkshire league placings even though there were effectively 2 pools)

Coco you can churn out all the data you want from the very beginning if you want but that only tells half a story .The players we have at our disposal are far better equipped to produce a much better standard of rugby than ever their predecessors were .Diet ,fitness ,conditioning,full time ,and yet what I see is a team lacking at times the very basic core skills of RL, which is seen all over the north on a weekend from professional to amateur . If people are happy to see players week in week out making silly unforced errors and blame it on them been of poor quality ,get out and watch some amateur games and see the quality they produce on a regular basis . I truly hope we pull through this ,but to put the blame squarely on our supposedly average players and not to a big part on the coaching set up truly baffles me .
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Mon May 03, 2021 7:10 pm  
Wollo-Wollo-Wollo-Wayoo User avatar
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2002 11:01 pm
Posts: 8560
Location: Standing on the heads of Giants
Kettykat wrote:
Coco you can churn out all the data you want from the very beginning if you want but that only tells half a story .The players we have at our disposal are far better equipped to produce a much better standard of rugby than ever their predecessors were .Diet ,fitness ,conditioning,full time , .


The problem is, so are everyone else's.
This world was never meant for one as beautiful as me.

WTRLC 2012 to 2014 "The wasted years"

Magic Weekend "Whipping Boys" 2013, 2014 & 2015

2017 - The year the dream disappeared under Grix's right foot.

2018 - The FinniChezz Bromance

2019 - The return of the Prodigal Son.

2020 - Keeping the faith.
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Tue May 04, 2021 3:50 am  

User avatarKettykat wrote:
Kettykat User avatar
Cheeky half-back
Cheeky half-back

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:07 am
Posts: 952
Wollo-Wollo-Wollo-Wayoo wrote:
The problem is, so are everyone else's.

The problem is wollo as I see it ,we have, when injuries permit one of the most settled squads in super league, with one incoming ,but to watch them Play they look like a squad that has been thrown together . I get that we aren’t going to match the big boys on a regular basis ,but we’ll never get near if we don’t at least aspire to be like them .I don’t knock my home town team lightly but even the most conservative of us must see we aren’t playing to our potential and have not been for quite some time . My memory is not what it used to be but I can’t remember a time when I’ve seen our team make so many unforced errors and attack so poorly . I hope it’s just a confidence thing and we get back on the horse real soon ,as the games are passing us by and I fear for the club if it ends up being a shoot out at the end .
Re: There is no shame or self pride. Tue May 04, 2021 8:08 am  

alegend wrote:
alegend Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:32 pm
Posts: 1259
Got to admit we got the Players (,apart from a 9) but the way we have been Coached over the last 2 year Think we would struggle to be in the top 4 of the championship .Some thing as got to change
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Melbourne 24 815 316 499 42
Penrith 24 640 280 360 42
Souths 24 775 453 322 40
Manly 24 744 492 252 32
Sydney 24 636 475 161 32
Parramatta 24 566 457 109 30
Newcastle 24 428 571 -143 24
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Catalans 23 688 398 290 38 172.86 82.61
St.Helens 21 548 229 319 32 239.30 76.19
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Wigan 25 387 385 2 30 100.52 60
Leeds 24 556 440 116 26 126.36 54.17
Hull KR 20 497 458 39 20 108.52 50
 
Castleford 23 439 552 -113 22 79.53 47.83
Hull FC 21 409 476 -67 17 85.92 40.48
Huddersfield 24 460 516 -56 18 89.15 37.50
Wakefield 24 482 548 -66 18 87.96 37.50
Salford 22 402 586 -184 14 68.60 31.82
Leigh 22 356 870 -514 4 40.92 9.09
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Toulouse 13 616 112 504 26 550 100
Featherstone 19 817 254 563 34 321.65 94.74
Halifax 19 512 323 189 26 158.51 68.42
Bradford 18 483 455 28 24 106.15 66.67
LondonB 18 504 499 5 21 101 63.89
Batley 19 525 370 155 24 141.89 63.16
 
Whitehaven 20 447 496 -49 21 90.12 52.50
York 19 470 455 15 16 103.30 42.11
Widnes 19 458 509 -51 15 89.98 39.47
Newcastle 18 381 521 -140 13 73.13 36.11
Sheffield 18 382 553 -171 13 69.08 36.11
Dewsbury 19 308 570 -262 13 54.04 34.21
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Rochdale 17 505 488 17 17 103.48 50
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St.HelensW 7 370 36 334 12 1,027.78 85.71
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YorkW 6 186 102 84 8 182.35 66.67
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Wire W 8 150 334 -184 4 44.91 25
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LeedsW 7 364 38 326 14 957.89 100
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