Re: Backs 2011 : Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:02 pm  

FC Callum wrote:

Don't think Lyne is anywhere near ready, dual registration deal would be a huge benefit to him first.

i think that's 1 player agar won't allow on loan

Re: Backs 2011 : Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:11 pm  

jimmyfivebellies wrote:

has a look of 2010 that-and everyone keeps saying we need to strengthen!!-potentially excellent tho' i agree

Thats the reason i added the wink. With Lyne 1 year more experienced i think the players we have are quality. Thats the point i was trying to make really.

Re: Backs 2011 : Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:03 am  

I just don't get those who claim our back line with one recognised winger and Hall in the centres is "good enough"/on a par with the top clubs. We use every quota spot on our pack. The other top clubs average 3 overseas players in their first choice back 5.

Wigan:
Phelps
Roberts
Carmont
Richards

Leeds:
Webb
Delaney
Donald

Warrington:
King
Hicks

Saints:
Gidley
Soliola
Meli

Huddersfield:
Hodgson
Lolesi
Whatuira

Other clubs have chosen to invest quota spots and salary cap wedges in quality and experienced overseas backs. We haven't. I find it really interesting that people don't believe that other clubs have any advantage over us in this respect. Why, in times of reducing quota spots, do the top teams employ 3 overseas backs? I'm maybe overstating the issue to labour the point, but most of the players listed above would walk into our team.

Re: Backs 2011 : Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:31 am  

As you've previously pointed out Mrs B there is a lack of world class British backs at present , particularly centres - so overseas signings in these areas is pretty predictable.

Agar may well be of the opinion that it is the forwards that win the games and the backs by how many. Strengthing in the forwards was required from last seasons overall performances.

Re: Backs 2011 : Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:40 am  

Our quotas full so we'll have to lose fitzy to get a overseas back.

And getting good overseas players is going to get harder and harder now.

Re: Backs 2011 : Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:04 am  

Captain Dave wrote:

As you've previously pointed out Mrs B there is a lack of world class British backs at present , particularly centres - so overseas signings in these areas is pretty predictable.

Agar may well be of the opinion that it is the forwards that win the games and the backs by how many. Strengthing in the forwards was required from last seasons overall performances.

I've no doubt that's what Agar thinks, and he's right. But comparing our collective quality and quantity in the backs a) to that in our forwards and b) to that of the top teams suggests we've got the balance wrong. I disagree with those who say that our backs are "good enough" when you compare them to the top teams, and with the lack of room for manoeuvre on the quota for 2011, the situation's not going to be resolved any time soon, unfortunately. Why do top teams utilise multiple overseas spots on the back 5 if it's only the pack and halves that determine results?

[Kosh]

Re: Backs 2011 : Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:49 am  

Mrs Barista wrote:

I've no doubt that's what Agar thinks, and he's right. But comparing our collective quality and quantity in the backs a) to that in our forwards and b) to that of the top teams suggests we've got the balance wrong. I disagree with those who say that our backs are "good enough" when you compare them to the top teams, and with the lack of room for manoeuvre on the quota for 2011, the situation's not going to be resolved any time soon, unfortunately. Why do top teams utilise multiple overseas spots on the back 5 if it's only the pack and halves that determine results?

You have to bear in mind where we were and what we had to work with. We needed a rebuild of the entire side, which was simply not possible to do in a single off-season. We had to start somewhere, and IMO the pack and the halves were the most important things to fix first. It makes sense not just from an RL point of view but also from a 'bang-per-buck' perspective, especially when you consider existing contracts etc.

Raynor leaving when and how he did hasn't helped the balance of the back 5, and neither has Calderwood's run of injuries. Neither can be called an error IMO. The club had a plan to deal with the Raynor situation which got torpedoed by events outside of their control, and Calderwood hasn't previously had a bad injury record.

There's no doubt that the backs need a refresh/upgrade and I'm sure that's where the focus will be when recruiting/retaining for next season. We were never going to fix all the problems with the squad in one hit, and IMO we've done nothing wrong given the restraints we have to operate under.

Re: Backs 2011 : Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:54 am  

Mrs Barista wrote:

I just don't get those who claim our back line with one recognised winger and Hall in the centres is "good enough"/on a par with the top clubs. We use every quota spot on our pack. The other top clubs average 3 overseas players in their first choice back 5.

Wigan:
Phelps
Roberts
Carmont
Richards

Leeds:
Webb
Delaney
Donald

Warrington:
King
Hicks

Saints:
Gidley
Soliola
Meli

Huddersfield:
Hodgson
Lolesi
Whatuira

Other clubs have chosen to invest quota spots and salary cap wedges in quality and experienced overseas backs. We haven't. I find it really interesting that people don't believe that other clubs have any advantage over us in this respect. Why, in times of reducing quota spots, do the top teams employ 3 overseas backs? I'm maybe overstating the issue to labour the point, but most of the players listed above would walk into our team.

With quota spots reducing in the future maybe we are simply ahead of the game. These clubs will have to lose some of their talented overseas backline and we will be ahead due to the fact that the likes of Hall, Whiting, Tansey, Turner, Yeaman and Briscoe all will have masses of experience playing by then if they dont currently.

At the minute our backs done get any service so even if we had the Wigan backline we'd be nowhere near as good. Pat Richards for example playing for us would never get a kick to the corner to jump for.

We need a good quality coach with a gameplan and a couple of halves that can create and stay fit far more importantly that we need a change in backline imo.

Re: Backs 2011 : Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:04 am  

Kosh wrote:

You have to bear in mind where we were and what we had to work with. We needed a rebuild of the entire side, which was simply not possible to do in a single off-season. We had to start somewhere, and IMO the pack and the halves were the most important things to fix first. It makes sense not just from an RL point of view but also from a 'bang-per-buck' perspective, especially when you consider existing contracts etc.

Raynor leaving when and how he did hasn't helped the balance of the back 5, and neither has Calderwood's run of injuries. Neither can be called an error IMO. The club had a plan to deal with the Raynor situation which got torpedoed by events outside of their control, and Calderwood hasn't previously had a bad injury record.

There's no doubt that the backs need a refresh/upgrade and I'm sure that's where the focus will be when recruiting/retaining for next season. We were never going to fix all the problems with the squad in one hit, and IMO we've done nothing wrong given the restraints we have to operate under.

although he's not stupid - I've just always wanted to use that emoticon.

Re: Backs 2011 : Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:47 pm  

Kosh wrote:

You have to bear in mind where we were and what we had to work with. We needed a rebuild of the entire side, which was simply not possible to do in a single off-season. We had to start somewhere, and IMO the pack and the halves were the most important things to fix first. It makes sense not just from an RL point of view but also from a 'bang-per-buck' perspective, especially when you consider existing contracts etc.

Raynor leaving when and how he did hasn't helped the balance of the back 5, and neither has Calderwood's run of injuries. Neither can be called an error IMO. The club had a plan to deal with the Raynor situation which got torpedoed by events outside of their control, and Calderwood hasn't previously had a bad injury record.

There's no doubt that the backs need a refresh/upgrade and I'm sure that's where the focus will be when recruiting/retaining for next season. We were never going to fix all the problems with the squad in one hit, and IMO we've done nothing wrong given the restraints we have to operate under.

The emphasis for all teams will be to recruit the best possible British players they can and then use the quota spots to fill in the gaps. Players like Whiting and Hall might not be as good as some overseas players but they are much cheaper and are not quota players so that gives the club room to manouver in other areas.

You are right, our pack needed fixing and in Yeaman, Hall and Whiting we have good players in the centres, Briscoe and Calderwood are both good wingers and we also have good wingers coming through the system so imo it would be pointless spending big money on a back for the sake of it. Keeping Fitz would be a far better option as the effect he has on everybody at the club is huge as well as his performances.