Re: Enough is Enough : Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:06 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote:

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/hull-fc/dave-craven-passionate-lee-radford-needs-to-bite-his-lip-when-dealing-with-media-1-7793069

Good honest appraisal that. I particularly liked this opinion:

Ellis, as professional a player as you could wish to meet and someone who must surely rue his decision to join the Black and Whites four years ago

Re: Enough is Enough : Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:13 pm  

SirStan wrote:

Good honest appraisal that. I particularly liked this opinion:

Sadly this is true, he really deserves some success at Hull, don't think it will happen unfortunately.

Re: Enough is Enough : Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:13 pm  

BIG HOWARD wrote:

if players are having clear the air talks they are hardly going to air any grievence against the coaching staff if they are there in the dressing room with them

.... why should it imply grievances against the coaching staff?

Radford has been lambasted for criticising players in public, and I'd imagine he has to be careful what he has to say about individuals in front of all the players.

What the players say amongst themselves is another matter.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Enough is Enough : Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:20 pm  

Next up for you are Wakefield and the Derby. Much as it pains me to say it, that's currently the weakest two teams in SL. If you play like you did for the last 60 minutes on Thursday, you might come a cropper. Might.

More likely you'll play with something resembling competence and rollover both pretty comfortably. And that's the thing, you'll meet enough weaker or out of form teams to make the 8, at least - even without a plan b. How much more than that, if anything, Radford needs for an extension is an interesting question for me.

Re: Enough is Enough : Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:38 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

Next up for you are Wakefield and the Derby. Much as it pains me to say it, that's currently the weakest two teams in SL. If you play like you did for the last 60 minutes on Thursday, you might come a cropper. Might.

More likely you'll play with something resembling competence and rollover both pretty comfortably. And that's the thing, you'll meet enough weaker or out of form teams to make the 8, at least - even without a plan b. How much more than that, if anything, Radford needs for an extension is an interesting question for me.

As Jake said, we probably need to win half our remaining games to make the 8. Unlikely on current form. With the "immediate" wins that Peacock has said will happen for you now Webster is in place, we'll be looking up at you come Easter Monday. Oh well.

Re: Enough is Enough : Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:58 pm  

Rugby Raider wrote:

Think Radford must now be on the last few minutes of borrowed time.

I've never been his biggest fan and always sensed (though not proven) that he may have been in Pearson's ear to get rid of Gentle on the promise that he'd do a better job, of which he never has.

As a life long fan for over 40 years now, I've always stayed positive regarding Hull and expect improvement is never far away.

With the close season recruitment, I'd shared others view that we just judge Radford 8-10 games in and post Easter Monday is a good time with us having played most of the teams by then.

Even with the defeat last night, I would still stick with assessing the situation in a few weeks, however during half time last night my view changed. At the end of the half, my positivity remained. We'd started strongly and had demonstrated in other games our ability to score more freely this season. A couple of early second half tries and we'd be back in with a shout.

Then came the changing room images. Clear as day, you see Radford walk through and out of the far end of the dressing room with a 'talk to the hand' dismissal to at least one of our players. To me, that moment showed things aren't right in our dressing room. This, followed by a very public 'Coaches asked to leave' endorses that view.

Of course, all sports have teams that have clear the air talks, but these are usually behind closed doors, a day or two after a defeat and if reported, done so a few days after the event.

So if things aren't right in the dressing room and there's s divide, then we've reached the point of no return. If this is the case, then Radford's position is untenable and he will have to go now.

I have had similar thoughts to you regarding the nature of Radford's appointment and how I have viewed his progress since then.

Chronologically, my feelings have been outrage, denial, disbelief, resignation, more resignation, optimism and latterly wild excitement. Spattered of course throughout with hope when we've strung a good patch together.

I've never wanted him to fail, just expected him to and I've explained my reasons for that more than monotonously over the last few years, so won't go there again.

But I just can't get my head around what's happened in the last three weeks. It's just not logical to see such a capitulation within a side as we've witnessed.

I agree completely with your interpretation of the 'hand dismissal' as he walked out of the dressing room. Look at the reactions of the players, particularly Frank and Ellis. That's a clear indication that something's not right and the player's meeting afterwards backs that up, even if it did only mean the senior players wanted privacy while they rallied the troops. Why the need to rally disconcerted troops in the first place and why couldn't Radford do it? This smacks of a split at best in the dressing room, even if it's not yet completely lost.

And how many times have we seen that before?

Given this, that Radford has once again been 'loose tongued' in front of the media (and it's not the first time he's done that either - Shaul, Lineham?) is not the issue, it's the fact that the senior players felt the need for that unprecedented meeting in the first place.

Just my interpretation of events and hope I'm wrong.

Re: Enough is Enough : Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:29 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

Next up for you are Wakefield and the Derby. Much as it pains me to say it, that's currently the weakest two teams in SL. If you play like you did for the last 60 minutes on Thursday, you might come a cropper. Might.

More likely you'll play with something resembling competence and rollover both pretty comfortably. And that's the thing, you'll meet enough weaker or out of form teams to make the 8, at least - even without a plan b. How much more than that, if anything, Radford needs for an extension is an interesting question for me.

Don't worry we'll probably scrape a win against wakey and yourselves to paper over the cracks then he will probably get a new 4 year deal.

[Kosh]

Re: Enough is Enough : Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:16 pm  

WormInHand wrote:

That's a clear indication that something's not right and the player's meeting afterwards backs that up, even if it did only mean the senior players wanted privacy while they rallied the troops. Why the need to rally disconcerted troops in the first place and why couldn't Radford do it? This smacks of a split at best in the dressing room, even if it's not yet completely lost.

Who said anything about senior players 'rallying the troops'? Both Ellis and Taylor have stated it was a clear-the-air session between ALL the players after an embarrassing performance.

WormInHand wrote:

it's the fact that the senior players felt the need for that unprecedented meeting in the first place.

This type of meeting is not unprecedented in RL. Just because it hasn't happened here before doesn't mean it hasn't happened elsewhere - the press have provided a couple of recent examples including a very recent one from the NRL.

Re: Enough is Enough : Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:05 am  

Kosh wrote:

Who said anything about senior players 'rallying the troops'? Both Ellis and Taylor have stated it was a clear-the-air session between ALL the players after an embarrassing performance.

This type of meeting is not unprecedented in RL. Just because it hasn't happened here before doesn't mean it hasn't happened elsewhere - the press have provided a couple of recent examples including a very recent one from the NRL.

Watch Radford's exit from the dressing room again, and Ellis' and Frank's reactions. Don't care what was said to diffuse the situation afterwards, the fact the meeting took place after that half-time exit necessitates concern, and the responses of two of our most senior players on video reflects that, imo.

As for 'rallying the troops' what other reason could there be for a players' only meeting? If it was a 'clear the air meeting' there is clearly discord within the troops that the senior players had to diffuse? Hence a rallying of troops? My argument - as is that of most objective observers - is 'Shouldn't Radford have been part of that?' If the answer to is that is in any form a negative, then the implication is that things needed to be said that Radford couldn't be party to.

And what a can of worms that opens up.

Re: Enough is Enough : Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:24 am  

Kosh wrote:

This type of meeting is not unprecedented in RL. Just because it hasn't happened here before doesn't mean it hasn't happened elsewhere - the press have provided a couple of recent examples including a very recent one from the NRL.

I'd be interested to see what the after effect of all such meetings have had on the clubs.