Re: Losing Interest : Tue May 06, 2014 7:11 pm  

in reply to the game in general getting boring, could'nt agree more. think they are many factors contributing to this, the main one i believe is teams so infactuated with structures, and as one has already stated, teams slowing the rook down, radford stated leeds have the worst structure, well from were i'm looking there top of the league and looking to make a clean sweep of trophys, not bad eh. also i believe we do have half backs in the game who are good enough, but coaches seem to think they are not any about, maybe the factor is the game has changed too much which is detremental to most halfbacks as they are more like robots now, even the no look pass, as its a structured play, the man will be there, i remember gentle saying about miller, he's like a dog on a liesh, wanting to try allsorts, well to me thats what the game is missing, those off the cuff plays. the game has become a game of chess, each attacking play, laying a platform to move defences about, for releasing the killer play in what the top teams, more often succeed. teams no more than ourselfs are trying to find that master half back, maybe we have one or is it the coaching or the game whats not letting these half backs show their potential, for me the stuctures and coaches must share the blame, just look at joe westerman, fans were slating this kid for the last few years for not playing like he was labeled, the next paul scullthorpe, get rid he's rubbish, now look radfords letting him play his own game, he's been outstanding in every game, our leader, maybe miller and others are just following instructions, so dont see the off cuff play what makes the game exciting,
for me, we need two refs, and maybe defences cant move until the dummy half gets the ball, the games far too fast now, (defences) and remember the flat line attack, well thats gone, wigan brought the old fashioned deep attacking line back, because the defences are so fast the need more space,

Re: Losing Interest : Tue May 06, 2014 7:45 pm  

A lot of interesting reads on this thread.

Subscribing to premier sports has rejuvenated my passion for the game. The sport as a whole is on a different level in Australia. I only watch the Wigan games and the odd big match on Sky now, instead i watch recordings of the NRL games. Superleague only becomes interesting come play off time.

The problem here is the overall standard of the league needs to improve. The top teams just go through the motions for most of the season looking to peak for the play offs. They know they will pick up enough points to put them in a position where they can challenge from. I think the problem lies with the standard of the coaching. As a Wigan fan i'll use Michael Maguire as an example. He learnt his trade under excellent coaches, spent many years coaching youth/reserve sides then as an assistant before he stepped up to Head Coach. When he did he was ready. As i'm on the Hull forum using Radford as an example. He was assistant for 1 or 2 years? I'm not sure but he hasn't learnt his trade before getting a big job. We made the same mistake with the likes of Betts. Leeds did with Powell who went away and learnt his trade in the Lower leagues before getting the Cas job. A damn good job he is doing too. As i sport we need to identify those who have the potential to be good coaches and give them a proper education before giving them a top job.

The RFL get a lot of criticism. A lot of it is justified but they have done a lot of good (and undone some of it). The non-fed rule going gradually down to 5 players was brilliant, then it is ruined by putting it back up to 7. The magic weekend is a great concept, if you haven't been you should, it's a great weekend.

The biggest disaster IMO is the abolition of the U21's which has removed the pathway to the 1st team and needs to be brought back asap (that i believe was the chairmen not the RFL though).

I honestly think the future has the potential to be bright. I was very skeptical about the new format but the idea has grown on me. It is effectively a 23 game season then the play offs start, firstly in a league format the into the semis. Clubs will have to aim for top 4 rather than top 8, There is now a pathway into the top division for teams to aim for and the potential of relegation so hopefully the weekly intensity will increase. There are a lot of exciting youngsters coming through at some clubs but not enough clubs have grasped the concept of youth development.

As a sport we need to concentrate on improving coaching standards and reintroducing the pathway for youngsters coming through. We also need to agree on a proper international calender, set in stone and stick to it!

RL is still IMO the best sport in the world, at its best it has everything. Intensity, skill, speed and excitement. Keep the faith!

Re: Losing Interest : Tue May 06, 2014 9:07 pm  

Irregular Hoops wrote:

Teams also just seem to do the same set plays and then kick to the corner. Time after time.
It's becoming a dull sport to watch, which is amazing considering the athletes who play the sport.

Kicks to the corner have been a pet hate of mine for ages.
They are balanced heavily in favour of the attacking side, who can risk making mistakes, whereas the defending side has everything to lose.
Basically it's a lottery, with no real rugby skills involved.

I'd change the rules - don't allow the attacking side to touch the ball from a kick (with an exception of the kicker, perhaps) until after it has bounced.

Re: Losing Interest : Tue May 06, 2014 9:40 pm  

Eastbourne Warrior wrote:

A lot of interesting reads on this thread.

Subscribing to premier sports has rejuvenated my passion for the game. The sport as a whole is on a different level in Australia. I only watch the Wigan games and the odd big match on Sky now, instead i watch recordings of the NRL games. Superleague only becomes interesting come play off time.

The problem here is the overall standard of the league needs to improve. The top teams just go through the motions for most of the season looking to peak for the play offs. They know they will pick up enough points to put them in a position where they can challenge from. I think the problem lies with the standard of the coaching. As a Wigan fan i'll use Michael Maguire as an example. He learnt his trade under excellent coaches, spent many years coaching youth/reserve sides then as an assistant before he stepped up to Head Coach. When he did he was ready. As i'm on the Hull forum using Radford as an example. He was assistant for 1 or 2 years? I'm not sure but he hasn't learnt his trade before getting a big job. We made the same mistake with the likes of Betts. Leeds did with Powell who went away and learnt his trade in the Lower leagues before getting the Cas job. A damn good job he is doing too. As i sport we need to identify those who have the potential to be good coaches and give them a proper education before giving them a top job.

The RFL get a lot of criticism. A lot of it is justified but they have done a lot of good (and undone some of it). The non-fed rule going gradually down to 5 players was brilliant, then it is ruined by putting it back up to 7. The magic weekend is a great concept, if you haven't been you should, it's a great weekend.

The biggest disaster IMO is the abolition of the U21's which has removed the pathway to the 1st team and needs to be brought back asap (that i believe was the chairmen not the RFL though).

I honestly think the future has the potential to be bright. I was very skeptical about the new format but the idea has grown on me. It is effectively a 23 game season then the play offs start, firstly in a league format the into the semis. Clubs will have to aim for top 4 rather than top 8, There is now a pathway into the top division for teams to aim for and the potential of relegation so hopefully the weekly intensity will increase. There are a lot of exciting youngsters coming through at some clubs but not enough clubs have grasped the concept of youth development.

As a sport we need to concentrate on improving coaching standards and reintroducing the pathway for youngsters coming through. We also need to agree on a proper international calender, set in stone and stick to it!

RL is still IMO the best sport in the world, at its best it has everything. Intensity, skill, speed and excitement. Keep the faith!

Great post, resonates with me. Don't really watch much football so the value I get from Premier Sports is vastly superior to Sky Sports. I only watch SL games if I'm in (out watching FC most Fridays), but really look forward to certain NRL games. If I want to watch FC, I use Hullfclive.

Somehow we need to recapture the Paris v Sheffield excitement. No idea how.

Re: Losing Interest : Tue May 06, 2014 9:47 pm  

hullbg wrote:

I thought it was just me that was losing interest in the game. For me the game is becoming dull as a whole. Teams are being very monotonous and the flair players are as rare as hens teeth. Sadly the only time we see any enterprise during games now is when it is a "free play" after a knock on or in the dying minutes when it is all or nothing.

Sadly the fact that teams are coached to slow the play down when on defence and they are allowed to get away with it has had a huge detrimental effect on the game. By allowing teams to slow the PTB down it means defences have a lot more time to get set. Yet if we stopped the spoiling tactics and allowed teams to get numerous quick plays in a set it would lead to much more exciting play as defences would tire quicker.

i could not agree more with this. there was a time when plays like the 'free play' were used in just about every set, when players had a bit of skill about them as well as power, and coaches encouraged such endeavor. nowadays we call the game an arm wrestle which can go on for 2 thirds of the game. in the nrl its even worse but at least there is more quality. its little more than a power game now. i also don't agree with the comment that we take for granted the high standards of todays game. i would take the 2004/5 fc team to wipe the floor with the hull teams from the last few years. i don't know what the answer is sadly but the game needs to reward attacking skill and enterprise a bit more

i've harped back to it in a few posts in the past but i think the franchise system did huge damage to the sport, in particular the removal of promotion and relegation. you have only to look at football's championship and divisional games last weekend to see the drama this can produce. the lack of a genuine league winner without a play off and no relegation meant the majority of the season went through the motions. the changes this season are little more than cosmetic and won't work

Re: Losing Interest : Tue May 06, 2014 9:51 pm  

piddy13 wrote:

in reply to the game in general getting boring, could'nt agree more. think they are many factors contributing to this, the main one i believe is teams so infactuated with structures, and as one has already stated, teams slowing the rook down, radford stated leeds have the worst structure, well from were i'm looking there top of the league and looking to make a clean sweep of trophys, not bad eh. also i believe we do have half backs in the game who are good enough, but coaches seem to think they are not any about, maybe the factor is the game has changed too much which is detremental to most halfbacks as they are more like robots now, even the no look pass, as its a structured play, the man will be there, i remember gentle saying about miller, he's like a dog on a liesh, wanting to try allsorts, well to me thats what the game is missing, those off the cuff plays. the game has become a game of chess, each attacking play, laying a platform to move defences about, for releasing the killer play in what the top teams, more often succeed. teams no more than ourselfs are trying to find that master half back, maybe we have one or is it the coaching or the game whats not letting these half backs show their potential, for me the stuctures and coaches must share the blame, just look at joe westerman, fans were slating this kid for the last few years for not playing like he was labeled, the next paul scullthorpe, get rid he's rubbish, now look radfords letting him play his own game, he's been outstanding in every game, our leader, maybe miller and others are just following instructions, so dont see the off cuff play what makes the game exciting,
for me, we need two refs, and maybe defences cant move until the dummy half gets the ball, the games far too fast now, (defences) and remember the flat line attack, well thats gone, wigan brought the old fashioned deep attacking line back, because the defences are so fast the need more space,

its not just the halfbacks who are being stifled, the removal of genuine loose forwards replaced by a sort of third prop is one of the obvious signs the game has changed, don't think there's been a great one since sculthorpe and brad fittler and of course jason smith for us. its players like smith the game needs more of

Re: Losing Interest : Wed May 07, 2014 6:45 am  

@airlie_bird wrote:

It is indeed interesting this thread. For me living hundreds of miles from the KC the choice of going is out of my hands. Since AP decided that tradition was no longer a factor and decided that Friday nights are best for families I have not been as often as I used to go. It's also made easier given that we have served up dross year after year since our last trip to Old Trafford. My life has moved on and I have found other things to do while hull are playing. It's a sad fact. That said I still spend a small fortune each year buying merchandise and making the occasional trip to the KC. But given how inconsistent we are it fills me with trepidation and not excitement every time I decide to splash out £150 + on travelling north to see us play. The kids get excited but that's the joy of being a youngster seeing their heroes. Unfortunate for them their heroes are second rate as opposed to my heroes like Knocker and the squad of the early 80s.
The game as a whole though is sterile and predictable. Occasionally either at live games or on Sky you get a game which reignites your love for the game. England NZ at Wembley was a casing point. But those games are few and far between.
The off the cuff play is not there so much now (IMO) as we have too many subs. Back in the day of only 2 subs the cheeky half back came into their own as the forwards tired. They could try things knowing that the props and others were tiring. It made for exciting play. Now we have enforcers who play 15 - 20 minutes a game. Simply to either barge over for tries or to cause some quick damage. I'd rather see them against a scrum half after 60 mins of play.
I am sure there were dead rubber games in years gone by. Some clubs never really made impressions on the league, but you had great cup sides which gave their fans something to look forward to and days of glory. Even if it was only a county cup final at Headingley in front of 11000 people. Castleford's Regal trophy victory vs Wigan in the early 90s being a classic example.
There isn't that any more. As such you get apathy and a feeling of why bother.
We all love our clubs and deep down love the game. But times have changed. We have many many different entertainment options crying out for our disposable income. All of which try and offer value for money. We might love the clubs we support but unless we feel that we are getting that VFM and also being entertained and enjoy the spectacle on offer then we start to drift.
The game is at that crossroads. The spectacle has to adapt which I believe it will with the 8x8x8 system. Clubs like Leigh and Featherstone have hope and will see their crowds and income develop. The fact it might be at the expense of a club from Hull or Bradford is for those clubs to worry about. We are in danger of playing Leigh and Featherstone this time next year in that middle 8 unless things change rapidly. That's for AP and NH etc to address as it's their cash which is on the line.
It's also for the RFL to address and recognise that things are not as roses as they should be.
Next year is the RU World Cup whilst our game and theirs are different it is a threat to our game. International athletes fully in the nations thoughts. There will be a feel good factor after it and the youngsters who are the stars of the future will want to play rugby. Sadly it will be RU and not RL as we do not offer the riches craved. Even at lower levels where average players can supplement incomes playing a game they love. As a result our product will dilute. I don't see this issue being considered by the RFL. Are they worried? I doubt it.
There is so much to celebrate in our game but sadly far more to criticise and that's why apathy is setting in.

How bloody depressing

very good post airliebird.like you,i live along way from hull,but i am in the position of being able to travel down for the home games(i`m a season passholder),courtesy of free train travel from when i worked on the railway.

Re: Losing Interest : Wed May 07, 2014 6:49 am  

Trawlerman wrote:

It's interesting that the apathy in this thread is generally directed at the game as a whole and not FC. That in itself gives peoples comments some credability.
The comments re substitutes/replacements is an interesting one and has led to something I've thought for sometime that the endurance part of the sport has been taken away. It used to be you pitted yourself against your opposite number for 80 minutes and fitness, determination became a factor as well as skill. You might not get on top until the last few minutes but now with players coming and going all the time that element of the game has disappeared.
It's even worse in Union with wholesale changes in every match.
The whole game in the UK needs a serious review with many of the comments on this thread being a basis for that review.

agree with you on that,100%.

Re: Losing Interest : Wed May 07, 2014 10:12 am  

For the first time in 35 years I booed the team and although this was alcohol fuelled I stick by my ranting. At 16-0 I called a loss because you could see heads go. I am considering not bothering on Friday despite having a pass and despite us playing the current double winners. It has been an 8 year long drought and to be honest I cannot work out as to whether I dont care enough or in fact care too much....

Re: Losing Interest : Wed May 07, 2014 11:00 am  

I'm definitely losing interest in the game as a whole. I honestly can't remember the last game I bothered watching that didn't involve Hull. It certainly wasn't this season.