Re: COHA : Thu May 23, 2019 8:19 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

Oops - wish i’d seen it coming and not walked unknowingly into the trap.

Right here’s my stab at Hull FC. Please correct any mistakes - they’re unintentional, I swear. I couldn’t find any evidence that Bobby Tyson-Wilson, Reece Dean or Ross Osborne ever played for your first team, but you may know better. Interesting to look through your old squads for some of the oddities that i’d forgotten. Tom Biggs, for example. Anyway...

You’ll be unsurprised to see it is rather better in relative terms. I’d be curious on your thoughts on it in absolute terms - would you be happy/satisfied with similar over the coming 5 years?

2012: Bowden (132), Crooks (51), Cunningham (10), Jack Briscoe (1)
2013: Shaul (150), Hadley (83)
2014: Abdull (54), Harry Tyson-Wilson (1)
2015: Fash (55), Matongo (49), Logan (38), Turgut (30), Downs (20), Lancaster (7)
2016: erm, none as far as I can tell. Obviously 6 was a good number the year before. Litten and Lane were both 2017, according to wiki.

In 2016 (and 2017) we did very well on the injury front which may explain the lack of debuts from the young folks.

[Mild Rover]

Re: COHA : Thu May 23, 2019 8:35 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote:

I’m just trying to look at the evidence

If you’re a young player and looking at the evidence, you’d have to say FC are the more credible model for production and retention of Hull talent. If you can demonstrate otherwise, then fine.

As for the comparisons with Wigan and Saints, I'd agree we fall short of them in this and other areas as they are bigger, richer clubs, but tbh I feel we have a decent homegrown core at Hull now and am satisfied it's a blend of experience, quality and potential. I'd feel less comfortable if I were a Rovers fan.

Your attempt to look at the evidence is an abomination. A fun abomination, but still. Also for any budding statisticians (or pedantic ****s), where Mrs B has written that the ‘the data here is the reality’, she means the ‘the data here are the reality’.

I agree though that Hull have a better recent track record, and that we need to look at why we struggled even compared with you (never mind Saints or Wigan) and at what should be done differently from now on. One thing though, there’s either not as much local talent nowadays as people like to think, or both clubs were doing a pretty mediocre job earlier in the decade (Rovers more so, admittedly). When you’re illustrating points about youth development with players who have retired, it’s not a great sign.

A homegrown core has value, I fully accept. However, it is overstated by people associated with successful clubs because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy, whereas believing that the success they enjoyed relied more heavily on simply having more money than the opposition would perhaps be too bleak for them.

[Mild Rover]

Re: COHA : Thu May 23, 2019 8:40 pm  

Faithful One wrote:

In 2016 (and 2017) we did very well on the injury front which may explain the lack of debuts from the young folks.

In contrast we had five make their debuts, the most for us in the period I looked at, and got relegated.

Now, it could be coincidence - but it’s interesting imo.

Re: COHA : Thu May 23, 2019 9:13 pm  

Mild Rover wrote: Your attempt to look at the evidence is an abomination. A fun abomination, but still. Also for any budding statisticians (or pedantic ****s), where Mrs B has written that the ‘the data here is the reality’, she means the ‘the data here are the reality’. I agree though that Hull have a better recent track record, and that we need to look at why we struggled even compared with you (never mind Saints or Wigan) and at what should be done differently from now on. One thing though, there’s either not as much local talent nowadays as people like to think, or both clubs were doing a pretty mediocre job earlier in the decade (Rovers more so, admittedly). When you’re illustrating points about youth development with players who have retired, it’s not a great sign. A homegrown core has value, I fully accept. However, it is overstated by people associated with successful clubs because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy, whereas believing that the success they enjoyed relied more heavily on simply having more money than the opposition would perhaps be too bleak for them. Much better! Although https://www.theguardian.com/news/databl ... l-singular And a little homegrown jam tomorrow on top. How very Rovers

Mild Rover wrote: Your attempt to look at the evidence is an abomination. A fun abomination, but still. Also for any budding statisticians (or pedantic ****s), where Mrs B has written that the ‘the data here is the reality’, she means the ‘the data here are the reality’. I agree though that Hull have a better recent track record, and that we need to look at why we struggled even compared with you (never mind Saints or Wigan) and at what should be done differently from now on. One thing though, there’s either not as much local talent nowadays as people like to think, or both clubs were doing a pretty mediocre job earlier in the decade (Rovers more so, admittedly). When you’re illustrating points about youth development with players who have retired, it’s not a great sign. A homegrown core has value, I fully accept. However, it is overstated by people associated with successful clubs because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy, whereas believing that the success they enjoyed relied more heavily on simply having more money than the opposition would perhaps be too bleak for them. Much better! Although https://www.theguardian.com/news/databl ... l-singular And a little homegrown jam tomorrow on top. How very Rovers

Re: COHA : Thu May 23, 2019 9:23 pm  

On a related topic, Hull beat Wakefield reserves 48-16 away. Cameron Scott hat trick.

[Mild Rover]

Re: COHA : Thu May 23, 2019 9:55 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote: Much better! Although https://www.theguardian.com/news/databl ... l-singular And a little homegrown jam tomorrow on top. How very Rovers Tbf, i’m happy using ‘alternatives’, which some people object to, believing it should only ever be singlular because of its Latin root. Language evolves and is all about common usage. i’d also defend my dialectical heritage passionately. Could of been, borrow me, learnt me... there is a line. I’m not promising jam, but you’ve got to aspire to better. We really need to in this regard. As the Mighty Boosh learned us, the present is elements of the past and elements of the future combining to create something not quite as good as either. So i’ll glory in the triumphs of yesteryear and the potential for a brighter tomorrow, twisting reality to something more to my taste. Like you with your abominable pie chart. Are you on holiday now? Go and have a good time on the penny arcades or whatever, and stop wasting your precious time reading my rubbish!

Mrs Barista wrote: Much better! Although https://www.theguardian.com/news/databl ... l-singular And a little homegrown jam tomorrow on top. How very Rovers Tbf, i’m happy using ‘alternatives’, which some people object to, believing it should only ever be singlular because of its Latin root. Language evolves and is all about common usage. i’d also defend my dialectical heritage passionately. Could of been, borrow me, learnt me... there is a line. I’m not promising jam, but you’ve got to aspire to better. We really need to in this regard. As the Mighty Boosh learned us, the present is elements of the past and elements of the future combining to create something not quite as good as either. So i’ll glory in the triumphs of yesteryear and the potential for a brighter tomorrow, twisting reality to something more to my taste. Like you with your abominable pie chart. Are you on holiday now? Go and have a good time on the penny arcades or whatever, and stop wasting your precious time reading my rubbish!

Re: COHA : Fri May 24, 2019 4:17 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

Tbf, i’m happy using ‘alternatives’, which some people object to, believing it should only ever be singlular because of its Latin root. Language evolves and is all about common usage. i’d also defend my dialectical heritage passionately.

Could of been, borrow me, learnt me... there is a line.

I’m not promising jam, but you’ve got to aspire to better. We really need to in this regard.

As the Mighty Boosh learned us, the present is elements of the past and elements of the future combining to create something not quite as good as either. So i’ll glory in the triumphs of yesteryear and the potential for a brighter tomorrow, twisting reality to something more to my taste. Like you with your abominable pie chart.

Are you on holiday now? Go and have a good time on the penny arcades or whatever, and stop wasting your precious time reading my rubbish!

I am nearly on holiday. Do you say day-ta, or dah-ta? I'm pretty sure the Romans used the latter if we're doing tradition

Re: COHA : Fri May 24, 2019 8:50 am  

Worrying times ahead, Andy the Rovers fan says that Pearson will be looking to leave us, now he has to pay for the academy.

Along with the best players coaches facilities and the super rich chairman , it won't be long until Rovers are churning out international players again.

Re: COHA : Fri May 24, 2019 9:45 am  

Dave K. wrote:

Worrying times ahead, Andy the Rovers fan says that Pearson will be looking to leave us, now he has to pay for the academy.

Along with the best players coaches facilities and the super rich chairman , it won't be long until Rovers are churning out international players again.

He can leave, but he can’t go, “coach quotes”

Re: COHA : Fri May 24, 2019 10:08 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

Oops - wish i’d seen it coming and not walked unknowingly into the trap.

Right here’s my stab at Hull FC. Please correct any mistakes - they’re unintentional, I swear. I couldn’t find any evidence that Bobby Tyson-Wilson, Reece Dean or Ross Osborne ever played for your first team, but you may know better. Interesting to look through your old squads for some of the oddities that i’d forgotten. Tom Biggs, for example. Anyway...

You’ll be unsurprised to see it is rather better in relative terms. I’d be curious on your thoughts on it in absolute terms - would you be happy/satisfied with similar over the coming 5 years?

2012: Bowden (132), Crooks (51), Cunningham (10), Jack Briscoe (1)
2013: Shaul (150), Hadley (83)
2014: Abdull (54), Harry Tyson-Wilson (1)
2015: Fash (55), Matongo (49), Logan (38), Turgut (30), Downs (20), Lancaster (7)
2016: erm, none as far as I can tell. Obviously 6 was a good number the year before. Litten and Lane were both 2017, according to wiki.

Bobby did play first team. So did a few others. I'm fairly sure I've also missed some so don't worry about it mate!

2012 Tom Lineham (68), Chris Green (128), Liam Kent (12)
2015 Bobby Tyson Wilson (2) Challenge cup v Sheffield Eagles, Super League v Salford.
2016 Jack Downs (20) (NOT 2015)