[Mild Rover]

Re: General off season Rovers chat thread : Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:50 am  

There's a big difference between making up to 5 players available when able, and committing to fielding 17 for regular or even occasional fixtures.

To make it worthwhile, IMO, we'd need to carry an extra 10 or 12 full-time (mostly young and inexpensive, admittedly) players. Even assuming other costs would be offset by people willing to pay a small amount to watch (optimistic IMO), we're still easily looking at a 6 figure sum for wages.

Now, it's often pointed out that this could be funded by doing without one or two high-end SL players. Usually underperforming or oft-injured players are cited as examples, but who they'll be isn't known in advance, and many high-end players offer immediate and tangible benefits. And if we're worried about players drifting away cutting long-term earnings potential has a cost too.

The large majority of academy players don't step up to have long professional careers, they never could - there isn't enough room in the senior squads. For some, A Team rugby would just be delaying the inevitable and getting a start in another career. For others, I think the Championship is a better path (on dual reg or otherwise).

The main selling point of an A Team is identity, and from a fan POV that is what this is all about. But if you're also the person who'd have to fund it or a player trying to develop a career, I don't think it really stacks up.

Re: General off season Rovers chat thread : Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:07 am  

Personally i think all SL sides should have a reserve team, add in most Championship sides it could become a Competitive league. Not just because it gives academy players a step up. And some players develop & add further skills later. But also for injured players returning, . To many players are lost to the game because we don't provide a decent step up.

This is one of the reasons that Australia are better than us, as from youth to first team. There's a logical stepping up process, and a competitive 1st & 2nd level.

Re: General off season Rovers chat thread : Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:10 pm  

As said most fans would love an A team but as someone who played at that level (50 years ago) I see that a lot has changed since those days. 1st in those times there were hundreds more players to look at, in Hull many primary & secondary had rugby teams at every age group for 10 year old up to school leaving age. That meant 20 or so lads in every year group for every position on the field playing competitive league matches through the season. On top of that when you left school there was a very competitive works league that a lot of local based firms actively supported. Add to that the living standards of the time young men & kids did not travel, car ownership was rare (for me to travel into East Hull to train twice a week to train was hard after work). Playing the game was something you did for fun any cash was a bonus you made friends, contacts who could help out with jobs (modern term is networking). As has been posted elsewhere the teams were full of local lads only the real top pro's got paid enough to travel or move out of town, the rest of us did it because that's what we were good at it (or thought we were). Now there are so many more opportunities for young men that weren't available to us. The last & most pertinent argument against A teams is pure demographics, the birth rate has been falling year on year since us baby boomers were of the right age. There are simply nowhere near the number of lads to make up enough teams to we have now.

Re: General off season Rovers chat thread : Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:49 pm  

luke ShipleyRed wrote:

Trouble is with working (have done for a number of years now), you just forget that it's Christmas day. It's just a normal day for me. But that's the job I do.

Agree about friendlies. Waste of time, no indication to the season. To many changes on the pitch etc.

Got to say when I was in the shop, was very impressed with the quality of the merchandise. And in my personal opinion this season's stuff looked a lot better than the last few years. Like the Retro stuff, perhaps upstairs could have more shirts, tee shirts etc.

Looking at Leeds Away as the 1st game I get to.

Just out of curiosity, what line of work are you in jo work such nasty shifts (I have young kids so would be nasty for me)

Re: General off season Rovers chat thread : Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:56 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

There's a big difference between making up to 5 players available when able, and committing to fielding 17 for regular or even occasional fixtures.

To make it worthwhile, IMO, we'd need to carry an extra 10 or 12 full-time (mostly young and inexpensive, admittedly) players. Even assuming other costs would be offset by people willing to pay a small amount to watch (optimistic IMO), we're still easily looking at a 6 figure sum for wages.

Now, it's often pointed out that this could be funded by doing without one or two high-end SL players. Usually underperforming or oft-injured players are cited as examples, but who they'll be isn't known in advance, and many high-end players offer immediate and tangible benefits. And if we're worried about players drifting away cutting long-term earnings potential has a cost too.

The large majority of academy players don't step up to have long professional careers, they never could - there isn't enough room in the senior squads. For some, A Team rugby would just be delaying the inevitable and getting a start in another career. For others, I think the Championship is a better path (on dual reg or otherwise).

The main selling point of an A Team is identity, and from a fan POV that is what this is all about. But if you're also the person who'd have to fund it or a player trying to develop a career, I don't think it really stacks up.

That is bang on the point. As a reference I have the Rovers history book by Roger Pugh (the real thick one!!) and at the back is a list of people who have played and for how long. Players like Stu Farr, Steve Hadi (and others) were with us for 5+ years and had a handful of 1st team apps between them, that was fine when it was pay as you play, but with full time salaries it is impossible in this era.

[Mild Rover]

Re: General off season Rovers chat thread : Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:06 pm  

luke ShipleyRed wrote:

Personally i think all SL sides should have a reserve team, add in most Championship sides it could become a Competitive league. Not just because it gives academy players a step up. And some players develop & add further skills later. But also for injured players returning, . To many players are lost to the game because we don't provide a decent step up.

This is one of the reasons that Australia are better than us, as from youth to first team. There's a logical stepping up process, and a competitive 1st & 2nd level.

If money were no object, then I agree it would be desirable. However, in terms of priorities I'd put it behind investing in the grassroots of the game and making another modest increase in the SL salary cap widely affordable.

In terms of Australia, I agree they have a more rational system for youth development than we do. But their current reserve grade was born through mergers and small clubs becoming feeder clubs to the NRL sides, as I understand it. I'm not advocating that, and I want York to remain independent - but surely this is a small step in the direction the Aussies went some time ago.

Re: General off season Rovers chat thread : Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:21 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

If money were no object, then I agree it would be desirable. However, in terms of priorities I'd put it behind investing in the grassroots of the game and making another modest increase in the SL salary cap widely affordable.

In terms of Australia, I agree they have a more rational system for youth development than we do. But their current reserve grade was born through mergers and small clubs becoming feeder clubs to the NRL sides, as I understand it. I'm not advocating that, and I want York to remain independent - but surely this is a small step in the direction the Aussies went some time ago.

I agree. We need to put more money into grassroots level. Over here it's the penine league, and there are regular stories off teams failing to get players etc. The point I made about reserve sides is in an ideal world. Which we not at.

Some Australian reserve teams is through mergers, (St George, West Tigers etc). Alot aren't. As I understand it, alot of teams in the area are affiliated to a NRL team (ie North Queensland townships are affiliated to Brisbane). So they tend to have more than 1 team.
I agree really wouldn't want it like that in this league. Each team should be independent. Some of the problem is I really don't agree with the duel registration idea. I have no problem with loans etc, but disagree with a week to week bases idea.

Re: General off season Rovers chat thread : Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:26 pm  

robinrovers10 wrote:

Just out of curiosity, what line of work are you in jo work such nasty shifts (I have young kids so would be nasty for me)

I work in a local hotel. Christmas dosn't me that much. My dad lives in north Lancashire. And my mum died 2 years ago next Feb. So it's probably for the best I do work it.

Re: General off season Rovers chat thread : Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:14 am  

Got my ticket for the Leeds game.

Also been looking at some York fixtures to get to. Didn't realise they also had Connor Robinson and Andy Ellis as well. If they had 4 duel registration players as well, could be 10 ex/current Rovers players on the pitch.

Anyone know where any other ex Rovers players are (preferably younger players), as I like to see how they doing. Know Hallett's at Batley. Guzdek's at Dewsbury (he's one I really thought could have made it). Ollet's at Newcastle I think?

[Mild Rover]

Re: General off season Rovers chat thread : Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:28 pm  

luke ShipleyRed wrote:

Got my ticket for the Leeds game.

Also been looking at some York fixtures to get to. Didn't realise they also had Connor Robinson and Andy Ellis as well. If they had 4 duel registration players as well, could be 10 ex/current Rovers players on the pitch.

Anyone know where any other ex Rovers players are (preferably younger players), as I like to see how they doing. Know Hallett's at Batley. Guzdek's at Dewsbury (he's one I really thought could have made it). Ollet's at Newcastle I think?

Yeah, Ollet's going to Newcastle for 2018, having been at Keighley and Dewsbury these last 2 years.

He wasn't far off, playing 20+ games for us. I remember Sandra being disappointed when he left - but Donaldson was better and Lawler was showing more potential, I guess.