Re: Albert Kelly : Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:27 pm  

rover 2000 wrote:

the 100 thousand+ shortfall on your crowd receipts will be more damaging leigh will only bring 3 hundred if your lucky, all banter aside fc benefit enormously with rovers in superleague

Do they?

Because looking at the period before Rovers were in SL up to 2006, we were doing alright, then 2007-2015 we fluctuated between average and awful, with us only managing to turn that around this season.

Also, it's not really a £100k shortfall. I'm guessing you've assumed 5,000 travelling Robins (?), which is optimistic for starters, then you have to take into account our deal with the SMC taking a bite.


Ultimately we both compete for sponsorship, corporates, players at all ages, new fans etc in an extremely limited catchment area that we share. Of course, there may be a local builder for instance who sponsors the Robins, who'll never ever sponsor Hull, and visa versa, but in a broader context, we are competing on these fronts.

I also think Rovers entering SL caused us to lose focus somewhat. We had some massive games against Bradford & Leeds in 04-06, and had a great rivalry with Saints at the time. That all changed. We now had our old rival on our doorstep nicking our best players, we were thinking about the big derby games and dealing what it takes out of the players mentally & physically afterwards, salaries were inflated due to the existing threat of a player being able to go to Rovers pretty seamlessly.


All things considered, I don't think as a club Hull FC do benefit from Rovers being in SL, I don't think Rovers benefit from Hull being in SL either. It's great for the fans with the banter and the drama, we all look for the derbies on the calendar when the fixtures come out, and the 6 easy league points this season was a nice bonus.

Re: Albert Kelly : Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:37 pm  

it was far from 6 easy points at 20-0 down when my veins were bursting with anger

Re: Albert Kelly : Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:29 pm  

DGM wrote:

Do they?

Because looking at the period before Rovers were in SL up to 2006, we were doing alright, then 2007-2015 we fluctuated between average and awful, with us only managing to turn that around this season.

Our league finishes:

2004: 3rd
2005: 5th
2006: 2nd

2007: 4th
2008: 11th
2009: 12th
2010: 6th
2011: 8th
2012: 6th
2013: 6th
2014: 11th
2015: 7th

2016: 1st/2nd

Re: Albert Kelly : Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:27 pm  

DGM wrote:

Our league finishes:

2004: 3rd
2005: 5th
2006: 2nd

2007: 4th
2008: 11th
2009: 12th
2010: 6th
2011: 8th
2012: 6th
2013: 6th
2014: 11th
2015: 7th

2016: 1st/2nd

That's more down to Agar, Gentle and co plus the players, than down to us being in SL. You could argue that without us you wouldn't have half the forwards you do in your team (that came from us originally).

Lets put it another way. Which is more profitable to Hull..having us or Salford in the league?

Regardless. This isn't really about Hull. If they're doing well, good for them. We need to focus on us right now to secure SL status and clear out some passengers in the team.

Re: Albert Kelly : Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:03 pm  

The same goes for all Super League clubs. You would take more to Warrington than Salford even though it is only down the road.

You bring more to the league than the other two clubs in the dogfight (and many would say Wakey too) so good luck.

Re: Albert Kelly : Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:55 pm  

Gallanteer wrote:

That's more down to Agar, Gentle and co plus the players, than down to us being in SL. You could argue that without us you wouldn't have half the forwards you do in your team (that came from us originally).

Lets put it another way. Which is more profitable to Hull..having us or Salford in the league?

Regardless. This isn't really about Hull. If they're doing well, good for them. We need to focus on us right now to secure SL status and clear out some passengers in the team.

I don't think it's as simple as saying "Rovers bring more
Fans to the KC and its therefore more profitable having them in the league", there are other factors to bare in mind as I wrote in my post, most of which are difficult to measure. The derby's are great though, even if there are too many.

I agree on Gentle and Agar having an effect, but I think Rovers had en effect too at the time. All in the past though hopefully.

You'll win this weekend IMO, and hope you do too.

Re: Albert Kelly : Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:27 pm  

DGM wrote:

Do they?

Because looking at the period before Rovers were in SL up to 2006, we were doing alright, then 2007-2015 we fluctuated between average and awful, with us only managing to turn that around this season.

Also, it's not really a £100k shortfall. I'm guessing you've assumed 5,000 travelling Robins (?), which is optimistic for starters, then you have to take into account our deal with the SMC taking a bite.


Ultimately we both compete for sponsorship, corporates, players at all ages, new fans etc in an extremely limited catchment area that we share. Of course, there may be a local builder for instance who sponsors the Robins, who'll never ever sponsor Hull, and visa versa, but in a broader context, we are competing on these fronts.

I also think Rovers entering SL caused us to lose focus somewhat. We had some massive games against Bradford & Leeds in 04-06, and had a great rivalry with Saints at the time. That all changed. We now had our old rival on our doorstep nicking our best players, we were thinking about the big derby games and dealing what it takes out of the players mentally & physically afterwards, salaries were inflated due to the existing threat of a player being able to go to Rovers pretty seamlessly.


All things considered, I don't think as a club Hull FC do benefit from Rovers being in SL, I don't think Rovers benefit from Hull being in SL either. It's great for the fans with the banter and the drama, we all look for the derbies on the calendar when the fixtures come out, and the 6 easy league points this season was a nice bonus.

Re: Albert Kelly : Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:31 pm  

We'd be miles better off without rovers in SL. More floating fans, the pick of the youth again, increased sponsorship from local businesses. As for the £100k we supposedly get? Let's be sensible - 4000 or so fans with a mix of adults and concessions, let's say average ticket price £18 which is £15 when you give the VAT man his share, half it for the SMC deal and you have about £30-35k. Worth having but not any major benefit when you consider what it costs us you being in SL

Re: Albert Kelly : Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:34 pm  

DGM wrote:

Do they?

Because looking at the period before Rovers were in SL up to 2006, we were doing alright, then 2007-2015 we fluctuated between average and awful, with us only managing to turn that around this season.

Also, it's not really a £100k shortfall. I'm guessing you've assumed 5,000 travelling Robins (?), which is optimistic for starters, then you have to take into account our deal with the SMC taking a bite.


Ultimately we both compete for sponsorship, corporates, players at all ages, new fans etc in an extremely limited catchment area that we share. Of course, there may be a local builder for instance who sponsors the Robins, who'll never ever sponsor Hull, and visa versa, but in a broader context, we are competing on these fronts.

I also think Rovers entering SL caused us to lose focus somewhat. We had some massive games against Bradford & Leeds in 04-06, and had a great rivalry with Saints at the time. That all changed. We now had our old rival on our doorstep nicking our best players, we were thinking about the big derby games and dealing what it takes out of the players mentally & physically afterwards, salaries were inflated due to the existing threat of a player being able to go to Rovers pretty seamlessly. ask adam pearson next year you will get your 10,000 against leigh or any of the ohers you will get nearer 20,000 against rovers =-10,000 in my book so don't be silly


All things considered, I don't think as a club Hull FC do benefit from Rovers being in SL, I don't think Rovers benefit from Hull being in SL either. It's great for the fans with the banter and the drama, we all look for the derbies on the calendar when the fixtures come out, and the 6 easy league points this season was a nice bonus.

Re: Albert Kelly : Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:39 pm  

Jake the Peg wrote:

We'd be miles better off without rovers in SL. More floating fans, the pick of the youth again, increased sponsorship from local businesses. As for the £100k we supposedly get? Let's be sensible - 4000 or so fans with a mix of adults and concessions, let's say average ticket price £18 which is £15 when you give the VAT man his share, half it for the SMC deal and you have about £30-35k. Worth having but not any major benefit when you consider what it costs us you being in SL

and to think I agreed with you in your last post not any more you twit