[Mild Rover]

Re: Oh Dear - Things need to change.........QUICK : Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:03 pm  

fun time frankie wrote:

This is a must win game we can't afford a defeat at home to our rivals in our 5 team mini league

It’d keep our hopes of 8th alive, just barely, but they’d remain slim. We’d possibly still have to win most of our remaining fixtures to the split, unless the bottom 5 are cut well and truly adrift.

A win would be valuable just give us a bit of feel good again.

Re: Oh Dear - Things need to change.........QUICK : Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:14 pm  

Surely 9th or 10th is the aim if you end up in the middle 8s so winning games at home against your close rivals is vital?

Re: Oh Dear - Things need to change.........QUICK : Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:50 pm  

We were always going to lose a lot more than we won, but for me its the manner in which we lose, when we lose we arent usually that competetive which i never understand, i always think our squads not as good as other squads so the players will raise there games and be well up for it but it doesnt seem to work that way.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Oh Dear - Things need to change.........QUICK : Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:04 pm  

Jake the Peg wrote:

Surely 9th or 10th is the aim if you end up in the middle 8s so winning games at home against your close rivals is vital?

It provides a fairly modest benefit, imo. I’d rather finish higher than lower, of course, and I want to see us beat Widnes because winning is better than losing. But 4 home games isn’t something to chase so hard you risk burnout or to be extra despondent about if you miss it.

It’s a key game because we’re capable of winning. It’s probably slightly defeatist, but I currently feel we’re close to incapable of beating the top 6, under normal circumstances. Which effectively writes off about 12 games, so when we do have a shot it’s important to take it. Although it maybe helped us avoid a blowout score line, that’s why not beating Hull when they reduced to 12 was probably even more disappointing. And not getting over the line against a struggling Catalans team in Perpignan too.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Oh Dear - Things need to change.........QUICK : Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:23 pm  

bishops finger wrote:

We were always going to lose a lot more than we won, but for me its the manner in which we lose, when we lose we arent usually that competetive which i never understand, i always think our squads not as good as other squads so the players will raise there games and be well up for it but it doesnt seem to work that way.

I think we have twin issues in not being as good or as big as the opposition. Enthusiasm is going to be hard to maintain if you’re struggling on the scoreboard and getting beaten up in the physical battle.

There were some posts recently about Jake Connor being an irritant on the Hull forum. What irritates me about him is that he’s 98 kg, according to the internet, and plays full back, stand off or centre. That’s a back row forward in Hull KR measurements. Fair enough, apart from Griffin, he’s bigger than most other Hull players in those positions too. But for comparison, weights in kg:
Quinlan and Atkin both 82, Heff and Minns both 92, McGuire 88. Carney is 96, and backrower/prop Jordan Walne, 98.

Re: Oh Dear - Things need to change.........QUICK : Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:01 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

I think we have twin issues in not being as good or as big as the opposition. Enthusiasm is going to be hard to maintain if you’re struggling on the scoreboard and getting beaten up in the physical battle.

There were some posts recently about Jake Connor being an irritant on the Hull forum. What irritates me about him is that he’s 98 kg, according to the internet, and plays full back, stand off or centre. That’s a back row forward in Hull KR measurements. Fair enough, apart from Griffin, he’s bigger than most other Hull players in those positions too. But for comparison, weights in kg:
Quinlan and Atkin both 82, Heff and Minns both 92, McGuire 88. Carney is 96, and backrower/prop Jordan Walne, 98.

I take a lot of the weights posted for players on the internet with a pinch of salt. No way is jake connor heavier than carney. I thought I'd seen somewhere that carney was 110kg anyway

Re: Oh Dear - Things need to change.........QUICK : Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:02 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

It provides a fairly modest benefit, imo. I’d rather finish higher than lower, of course, and I want to see us beat Widnes because winning is better than losing. But 4 home games isn’t something to chase so hard you risk burnout or to be extra despondent about if you miss it.

It’s a key game because we’re capable of winning. It’s probably slightly defeatist, but I currently feel we’re close to incapable of beating the top 6, under normal circumstances. Which effectively writes off about 12 games, so when we do have a shot it’s important to take it. Although it maybe helped us avoid a blowout score line, that’s why not beating Hull when they reduced to 12 was probably even more disappointing. And not getting over the line against a struggling Catalans team in Perpignan too.

I'd have said that with potentially toulouse, les cats and toronto in there you'd want as few away trips as possible. Only going to france once would be a big advantage over a couple of french trips and one to canada

[Mild Rover]

Re: Oh Dear - Things need to change.........QUICK : Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:52 pm  

Jake the Peg wrote:

I take a lot of the weights posted for players on the internet with a pinch of salt. No way is jake connor heavier than carney. I thought I'd seen somewhere that carney was 110kg anyway

I agree about the salt. But we look smaller than most teams, and undoubtedly struggle in the yardage battle and in contact, with all that entails.

There’s a counter narrative I’ve seen that our lack of size isn’t such a big problem and tbf I risk overstating it through repetition. But it’s based on us ‘holding our own’, rather than winning the physical battle, almost as if we’ve accepted that option is off the table.

I don’t want to put pressure on young men whose frames are not naturally suited to carrying extra weight, because that can lead to a dangerous place. However, in my ignorance, it looks like our recruitment and conditioning is out of step with much of the league.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Oh Dear - Things need to change.........QUICK : Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:04 pm  

Jake the Peg wrote:

I'd have said that with potentially toulouse, les cats and toronto in there you'd want as few away trips as possible. Only going to france once would be a big advantage over a couple of french trips and one to canada

There are so many imponderables, that it isn’t worth worrying much about imo. Assuming you’d specifically want to avoid those away fixtures, you’re swapping an expectation of getting 1.7 of them for 1.3. You could get 4 home games and those be your three away games, or vice versa. Most likely it’ll be one or two.

It’d make my click bait ‘top 5 in my reasons why it’d be nice to beat Widnes’, but only just.

Re: Oh Dear - Things need to change.........QUICK : Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:31 am  

[quote="Mild Rover

I don’t want to put pressure on young men whose frames are not naturally suited to carrying extra weight, because that can lead to a dangerous place. However, in my ignorance, it looks like our recruitment and conditioning is out of step with much of the league.[/quote]

I actually think the teams conditioning is back to where it was in the Morgan era. It’s the recruitment policy that seems to have back fired, going for lighter more mobile forwards who are grafters but through no fault of their own are unable to win the contact rather than size and impact. Unfortunately the squad are carrying too many players of this ilk.