: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:02 pm  

Don't post any of this on the VT, we will get called sad and bitter flat-cappers even though we were right about Celtic all along.

For any other ridiculous theories on this forum a new phrase shall be used: Richard Lewis' Calculator

: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:12 pm  

Keyboard Warrior wrote:

Don't post any of this on the VT, we will get called sad and bitter flat-cappers even though we were right about Celtic all along.

For any other ridiculous theories on this forum a new phrase shall be used: Richard Lewis' Calculator

How were you right about Celtic all along?

We've done exactly what I expected us to do. Finish bottom or near to with a few wins and an average of around 3,500 which may be pushed above 4,000 with a bit of luck.

: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:23 pm  

crucrucrusaders wrote:

How were you right about Celtic all along?

We've done exactly what I expected us to do. Finish bottom or near to with a few wins and an average of around 3,500 which may be pushed above 4,000 with a bit of luck.

The only way any of us were right as you put it is that you cannot rely upon a single person investor to build a sports club

This is not a criticism of Mr Samuels , I will never have a go at anybody who is willing to tip their hard earned into our sport

However if Celtic are in trouble then the RFL should commit to keeping them solvent at least until 2012 until they should be assessed again

This money should come out of the SL SKY money

: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:32 pm  

Starbug wrote:

The only way any of us were right as you put it is that you cannot rely upon a single person investor to build a sports club

Saints would have gone into administration in 2002 had it not been for our current chairman and his buddy (subsequently returned to the City) putting in their hard earned. Our chairman still has to put his hard earned into keeping the stadium from falling down on the fans. A lot of British RL clubs are loss making entities funded by one or two wealthy individuals (plus Sky money) and we all live on the edge of that same cravass. It's hardly beneficial to buy into rumours - denied by the Crusaders' investor in this week's RL press - and listen to those whose agenda it is to see the Crusaders fail.

It's good to get the place going as a business with as many sponsors and fundraising opportunities as possible as that takes the pressure off the initial investor and will make him happier. However, that takes time and he has said that he wants to give the club time so trust him to follow through on that. We have to do exactly the same thing at Saints.

: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:43 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Saints would have gone into administration in 2002 had it not been for our current chairman and his buddy (subsequently returned to the City) putting in their hard earned. Our chairman still has to put his hard earned into keeping the stadium from falling down on the fans. A lot of British RL clubs are loss making entities funded by one or two wealthy individuals (plus Sky money) and we all live on the edge of that same cravass. It's hardly beneficial to buy into rumours - denied by the Crusaders' investor in this week's RL press - and listen to those whose agenda it is to see the Crusaders fail.

It's good to get the place going as a business with as many sponsors and fundraising opportunities as possible as that takes the pressure off the initial investor and will make him happier. However, that takes time and he has said that he wants to give the club time so trust him to follow through on that. We have to do exactly the same thing at Saints.

Nowhere near at the same level

I am fully aware [ probably a lot more than you ] of the levels of ' investement ' that go into virtually any sports club , I am a friend of your ex chairman Arthur Thomas

However if Eamon decided that he could no longer tip in , Saints would still have a professional RL club in the town , because as long as you have fans there will be a club

Would that be the case at Bridgend ?

: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:48 pm  

Starbug wrote:

However if Eamon decided that he could no longer tip in , Saints would still have a professional RL club in the town , because as long as you have fans there will be a club

We would only have a professional club in the town if another backer came in. Like I said, we almost went into administration in 2002. Our ground devours resources while producing virtually no income to speak of (because it's falling apart). Saints are not a rich club. Leeds are probably the only rich club in the whole of Superleague and even they had to sell off the cricket ground next door.

We average about 10,000 fans a match this season. We now have seven home matches plus any CC games (revenue split between clubs) and play off games (money to RFL I believe - so they cost, they don't generate). We are a town of 180,000 people but few now actively support the Saints. Most who do support the team, except if we make it to Wembley, prefer to do so in front of a TV screen, either in a pub or in their living rooms. That wouldn't change if our chairman left. We wouldn't suddenly have revenue pouring in from a huge fanbase. We would probably go bust, simples. However, with a new stadium, we may - just may - have a chance, as that could generate income independently.

However, I would agree that Celtic are in a more precarious position simply because they do not have the history and resulting local reputation to assist them in times of trouble. Therefore, it is probably more likely that we would find another backer simply because we have been around since RL began whereas you are new to the scene and so don't have that same background to rely upon.

Having said all of that, I don't want Celtic to fail. I want the Crusaders to succeed and I'm trying to be positive as an outsider because I think Cru fans need to keep having positive thoughts about the future even though things have probably not gone the way everyone was hoping they would at the outset. Things will change once the squad can start producing a goodly number of wins. That's likely to be next season (although hopefully, now that you've played us twice!, there will be a couple more wins before the end of this season) I'm sure your backer will stick with you and begin to see positive returns on his investment next year.

: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:55 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

We would only have a professional club in the town if another backer came in. Like I said, we almost went into administration in 2002. Our ground devours resources while producing virtually no income to speak of (because it's falling apart). Saints are not a rich club. Leeds are probably the only rich club in the whole of Superleague and even they had to sell of the cricket ground next door.

But still at a totally different level to Celtic

And the point also being , there would be another backer

Think youself lucky , you try running a club in a council ' facility ' that you have to pay rent to play in , you cannot train in it , no gym , no income from any sales , no shop , pay rental for your offices , no SKY money , no away fans , no stadium sponsorship and no future

: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:03 pm  

Starbug wrote:

Think youself lucky , you try running a club in a council ' facility ' that you have to pay rent to play in , you cannot train in it , no gym , no income from any sales , no shop , pay rental for your offices , no SKY money , no away fans , no stadium sponsorship and no future

Oh, believe me, I know we have been lucky. We were rescued. By a guy with a lot of passion for RL and for St Helens who happened to be very wealthy and a very, very astute business man. Yes, we are lucky. We are also lucky to own the ground we play in, even if it is literally falling down around us. I agree with you entirely on that point.

: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:31 pm  

Dont care rfl helping hand once again?Why not help halifax,widnes or doncaster when needed.I got no time for this corruption in the game and dont give a hoot.

: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:59 pm  

Getting 10,000 fans in 10 years time would be very optimistic considering our union sides such as the one here in Cardiff which reached the European Cup Semi final last season only average around 10,000 forthe first time since the 'regions' were invented in 2003, the Ospreys with all their talent (AND GAVIN HENSON WHO WATCHES MANY CRUSADERS HOME MATCHES) only get around 7,000 and the other two are largely deemed as being failures in terms of success and crowds .


The Welsh people seem to love a spectacle when it comes to Rugby Union ,the national side can fill a 75,000 seat stadum on a fairly regular basis yet the professional game is not great due to the extensive local TV . coverage. One week Cardiff Blues attract 45,000 for a European Cup match , the next they can't scrape 6000 in a local derby against Newport. The 'establishment' here seems to still hold a grudge against League but many people's attitudes are changing . Newport RU have been very helpful in developing local links in the area and providing support to our club for the Leeds match.

All clubs regardless of the sport are suffering at the moment.We all knew it would be hard down here but I didn't think it would be this hard but if we get through it we will be all the stronger for it.

If we are able to build the links now in the area across Wales and the South West then we have something strong and built to last. Some clubs like Widnes and Leigh have those links through their hisory and local culture , and hopefully one day so will we. That is how Rugby League will survive and potential flourish as a sport , that goes for heartland clubs as well as us.