: Mon May 25, 2009 2:36 pm  

crucrucrusaders wrote:

First of all I do understand your pain.

maybe you do, maybe you don't. A very considered reply all the same and some very valid points.
Trawl the forum all you will and you will not find me having a dig at the crusaders as a club - some of their fans maybe but, that's largely due to a lack of the understanding of largely what you have posted.

Were you ready? - no I don't think you were, tho I agree that if you weren't have been given a licence the opportunity may have been lost. It's the licencing system that's wrong not the timing.
Will it succeed? - time will tell. The club gets talked up every week on sky apparently (I'm not in a position to confirm so argue against that if you will), and the rugby press give the crusaders plenty of column inches so it's not for the want of trying. - I still have my doubts as to the games viability and sustainability in wales but tho I've posted that though I do it with hesitation as it may appear to be deliberately negative or wishful. I'm not, it's just a view I hold.

I have never held the view the game should not expand. It's just wholly wrong in how it's been done and the short/medium future of the game is so exclusive now that more fans appear to have been alienated than created. My anger is, and always has been with the RFL. I have repeated so many times- I have no axe to grind with the celtic club. However, as the system is now such an exclusive one, clubs like Catalan and Celtic are the winners of the political schism and the NL clubs you mention the losers. As such, public scrutiny of their performances is always likely to be at the forefront of us ludites who see the systematic removal of hope for our clubs ever to play in the top league.

Celtic are bottom at the mo. IMO - should have a protection from relegatin as Catalan - others may argue with that. But relegation should still be on the agenda whichever club it is. But the likelyhood of Bradford et al agreeing with that is unlikely methinks.
It's a long way back and maybe we'll never achieve our ultimate - I'll never stop looking for that option tho.

On another entirely different point - youth rugby. From one who was involved with youth rugby for a long time, I really do appreciate the efforts to get youngsters involved in the game. That in my opinion is the greatest achievement in walers - not playing in SL!!!!

: Mon May 25, 2009 2:42 pm  

Fair enough.

: Mon May 25, 2009 3:22 pm  

crucrucrusaders wrote:

First of all I do understand your pain.

<Snip>

I can agree and sympathise with almost everything you have written there. But you bring a lot of your problems on yourself because of what you have written below.

crucrucrusaders wrote:

Sometimes it is easy for me to tar everybody with the same brush. If a Widnes fan has a go at me then it is all too easy and sometimes logical to have a go at their club rather than them personally as that is what they have done to you and is the only thing you really know about them. You know nothing other than the club they support so it is the only option to have a go at their club and fight fire with fire.

You will always get fans from other clubs who cannot let go, and think if they moan at your fans it will help in some way and make the problem go away. When you then have a go at their club, you are not fighting fire with fire you are fanning the flames. Try to take each detractor on as an individual, as I have tried to do with you, and leave the club insults out of it. I know it’s difficult, and occasionally impossible.

You are entering threads and slagging off all Widnes fans, for something that was mentioned by an idiot months ago on a totally different thread. You act as badly as the worst Widnes, Leigh or Fev troll.

crucrucrusaders wrote:

I have no axe to grind with any other fans and would love to get on great

Unfortunately, you clearly do, particularly with Widnes fans. Even when Widnes fans are not slagging off CC, which is 99% of the time, you ruin perfectly reasonable threads. It seems to me you have a bigger problem with Widnes than any Widnes fan has with your club. I know, if there is a thread about Widnes on the VT, you’ll be there trolling. I’m probably more sick of the minority of Widnes fans moaning about CC than you are. You have to understand, that the majority of Widnes fans are, at worst, ambivalent about CC and many are actually supportive.

There are fans in every club in the land who do not agree with the way the licences were handed out, or the licence system itself. It’s not just about Widnes, Leigh or Fev fans. It’s just a pity they blame your fans and slag off your club, when they really should be happy RL could be spreading to Wales, and blaming the RFL for not being entirely honest.

crucrucrusaders wrote:

If Saints had a go at my club I would react by having a pop at their club. There is no particular agenda against a certain club, it just happens to be the club we get most negativity and put downs from.

If you feel you’re getting more stick from Widnes fans than anyone else, that may be due to the situation. If you actually looked at it from our point of view it must be understandable, even to you. I don’t agree with Widnes fans coming on here slagging Celtic off, they’re still wrong to do it, but if it was Saints or Huddersfield or Wakey etc in our position, do you think they’d be any different?

If you continue to troll every Widnes thread on the VT, you’ll just end up making things worse and turning even the decent Widnes fans against you and your club. By all means give it to a Widnes troll with both barrels, I’ll even back you up, but when you just jump into threads slagging off all our fans and our club, you’re no better than a Widnes troll yourself and worthy of similar derision.

RL is a very traditional sport and many of it’s supporters families have also supported their club for generations. Many, including me, have had family members play for their club. This has kept the sport going for over 100 years. When you insult clubs like Widnes, Leigh and Fev you are insulting all that too.

: Mon May 25, 2009 3:26 pm  

Woah woah woah Pepe 99% of Widnes fans don't have ago at CC?

Hmmm not quite sure on that mate.

: Mon May 25, 2009 3:30 pm  

celt000 wrote:

Woah woah woah Pepe 99% of Widnes fans don't have ago at CC?

Hmmm not quite sure on that mate.

He never said that, read it again.

Fair posts from RFF and Pepe.

I'll try to keep the it in mind that it is only the minority that have a go and keep the responses as reasoned as possible. If I don't like it I'll try not to reply.

: Mon May 25, 2009 3:32 pm  

Oh sorry mis read. Stop doing big posts I can't be bothered to read it all

: Mon May 25, 2009 3:33 pm  

If you don't like it you will try not to reply?

Why not you are only giving your opinion.

: Mon May 25, 2009 3:37 pm  

celt000 wrote:

If you don't like it you will try not to reply?

Why not you are only giving your opinion.

Because it is causing $hit and is only one or two of them.

I'm not too bothered about Widnes threads until we're brought up anyway to be honest.

: Mon May 25, 2009 3:42 pm  

Its only causing $hit because some people MIGHT take it the wrong way.

A forum is to discuss about topics. And yes I'm a fine one to talk but a forum is also to put YOUR opinions down.

: Mon May 25, 2009 5:59 pm  

celt000 wrote:

Omg you lot are still bitching about the licenses. Move on for flips sake.

I stopped bitching about the licences a long time ago , before they were even awarded actually

My gripe since then has been with the RFL and their total lack of understanding as to how they are going to keep the tier below SL alive

They seem to either be totally clueless about this or even worse , they dont actually give a stuff , personally I think it is the latter

They seem to me to actually want the clubs in the heartlands to remain weak to make it easier for them to bring through new clubs from new area's

Even now certain clubs in the Championships seem to get treated differently depending on their location

If they are not careful they wont have much of a competition to use as a training ground much longer