FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - General Chat | Relegation & Who's To Blame? Thread
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain4160
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 18 20185 years30th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Mar 24 23:4025th Mar 24 12:01LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Relegation : Sat May 25, 2019 4:32 pm  
I agree with Marty generally. The lowest NRL club is still significantly stronger then the strongest SL club financially. The NRL is a premier sport in Aus.

There is absolutely no way even Leeds could afford to assemble a squad on a par with an NRL side now, or in the foreseeable future.

Another elephant in this room is the marquee ruling, which blows the salary cap apart already. How many clubs can afford to use it now? Even Leeds have pushed it to sign players who were on the outer in the NRL. Let’s get real here.

It’s really chicken and egg: money the fund quality, quality to bring the money in.
Gotcha 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Owner17230No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 15 200221 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
21st Oct 23 18:192nd Nov 20 15:05LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
#frostiesbitches We know who you are.

Re: Relegation : Sat May 25, 2019 4:45 pm  
KaeruJim wrote:
I agree with Marty generally. The lowest NRL club is still significantly stronger then the strongest SL club financially. The NRL is a premier sport in Aus.

There is absolutely no way even Leeds could afford to assemble a squad on a par with an NRL side now, or in the foreseeable future.

Another elephant in this room is the marquee ruling, which blows the salary cap apart already. How many clubs can afford to use it now? Even Leeds have pushed it to sign players who were on the outer in the NRL. Let’s get real here.

It’s really chicken and egg: money the fund quality, quality to bring the money in.


What does the NRL have to do with our Comp though? The only relevant point is that the NRL increased their cap and it enhanced their competition, and restricted those leaving to union.

What we need to concentrate on is our own, and trying to get a quality product to ensure it keeps going, and has a future. Something very much at risk. Whilst ever we continue ignoring this, the longer it becomes to fix. Much the same as how Leeds is run. The only way of obtaining quality investment is speculating first and give those investing a product worthy. And I include fans as an investor.
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain3615
JoinedServiceReputation
May 19 20168 years85th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
15th May 22 08:103rd May 22 22:52LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Relegation : Sat May 25, 2019 5:08 pm  
Gotcha to invest/speculate you have to have something to invest/speculate with. You have already said not many teams run at a profit.

You said the NRL increased their cap massively and it hasn't done them any harm but they had a billion dollar TV deal signed. They didnt increase their cap to gamble on their future they increased it cos the teams could afford it.

To say the NRL has nothing to do with our competition when so many players from each team in SL is filled with ex NRL players seems ludicrous. The top rated players can now stay in the NRL because the cap has been raised and so the quality of import to SL is lower so it has a big impact on our competition.

Any increase on our cap would be a financial gamble and still would not attract top Union players, would not attract top NRL players and would stop SL players wanting to go to the NRL so the player pool wouldn't increase.

Ever since you and I have watched RL the game has been dieing and on its last legs yet it's still going.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain266
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 07 20159 years271st
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Mar 24 12:4722nd Mar 24 21:29LINK
Milestone Posts
250
500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
Working as a missionary for RL in Nottingham and Mansfield

Re: Relegation : Sat May 25, 2019 5:29 pm  
Our problem is that NRL isn’t a spectator sport it’s a TV sport. Aussie Rules is a spectator sport not a TV sport, that’s why you see the huge crowds at AFL but the TV money goes to NRL. Superleague is really a spectator sport and until it becomes a TV sport you can forget salary cap increases.
Gotcha 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Owner17230No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 15 200221 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
21st Oct 23 18:192nd Nov 20 15:05LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
#frostiesbitches We know who you are.

Re: Relegation : Sat May 25, 2019 6:32 pm  
Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! wrote:
Gotcha to invest/speculate you have to have something to invest/speculate with. You have already said not many teams run at a profit.

You said the NRL increased their cap massively and it hasn't done them any harm but they had a billion dollar TV deal signed. They didnt increase their cap to gamble on their future they increased it cos the teams could afford it.

To say the NRL has nothing to do with our competition when so many players from each team in SL is filled with ex NRL players seems ludicrous. The top rated players can now stay in the NRL because the cap has been raised and so the quality of import to SL is lower so it has a big impact on our competition.

Any increase on our cap would be a financial gamble and still would not attract top Union players, would not attract top NRL players and would stop SL players wanting to go to the NRL so the player pool wouldn't increase.

Ever since you and I have watched RL the game has been dieing and on its last legs yet it's still going.



There is a few inaccuracies there Marty.

Just because teams do not run at a profit, does not mean they can not speculate or improve the product. It doesn’t revolve around profit. Changing what the spending is on for a start. This is where business knowledge comes in, and pick up on your point of should be run like a business.

I didn’t say the NRL increased its cap and not done any harm. You have read the wrong angle there. I said they had increased their cap and its has enhanced the game over there. Because now they can afford to raid other comps and other sports, and keep their top players from the opposite.

The point on the NRL having nothing to do with our comp wasn’t in terms of how much finance they have. As long as we are paying our own players what they are worth then we will succeed. It isn’t about bringing Aussies over, it’s about keeping our own.

I completely disagree on your point of what the cap wouldn’t do, and believe it is without any foundation, and defeatist.

I have been watching since 78, and I disagree that the game has always been dying. But I strongly believe that I have never seen such a poor quality across all its teams as I see now. I just watched a really poor Huddersfield team hammer an Hull team that has recently beat two of the top teams. That Hull team would have struggled to beat a league 1 team today. It’s embarrassing to see this. It needs to change.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain2356
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 10 20168 years281st
OnlineLast PostLast Page
13th Jun 23 21:4717th Feb 22 13:16LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
I really am rhinoms and haven't stolen his Avatar!

Re: Relegation : Sat May 25, 2019 6:45 pm  
We can all argue about why where and how but the responsibility to improve the game/brand/clubs lays purely with the Clubs themselves and the RFL.
We can't keep having separate factions to start with the SL RFL and the rest of the game need to be under 1 controlling body imo.
Of course when negotiating tv deals and sponsorship the contracts will be separate from the SL CC and lower leagues but the sport as a whole needs to be going in 1 direction as one.
My own pov is IF Clubs can show proof they can afford to invest more in their squads then so be it there is no way Teams should be held back if they can afford to be better.
I'd also re-think the imports set up i.e 5 overseas allowed and that's it no non fed loophole etc.
A minimum of 18 home grown players in SL Clubs 35 man squads.
Also certain "rules2 need addressing i.e this guessing about a try or not just a simple ? to the VR Try yes or no. Also this obstruction rule is a farce as is the ptb and players diving.
VR at EVERY game no need for the we cant afford it SKY sponsor us so get them to provide the cameras the off duty Refs/ex players can do VR duties.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member9565No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 08 200222 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
12th Dec 19 13:0211th Dec 19 22:00LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
10 mins walk from Suncorp Stadium

Re: Relegation : Mon May 27, 2019 12:23 am  
Realistically we can't increase the cap far enough to sign top flight NRL or RU players en masse. Even doubling the cap would mean we might pick up a few better NRL players but not much else beyond what the current marquee rules allow. The main difference might be in stopping players leaving for the NRL/RU.

So if we were to increase the cap, where would the money go apart from lining the pockets of existing players? I don't see any point in increasing the cap significantly without forcing clubs to spend on junior development, because that's where we're going to get 90% of our players from.

If you told any SL side they have 100% more to spend today, the first thing that would happen is all the existing players would have their hands out wanting rises. For zero benefit to the game. That's why you have to be very careful about increases and how they are managed.
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain3615
JoinedServiceReputation
May 19 20168 years85th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
15th May 22 08:103rd May 22 22:52LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Relegation : Mon May 27, 2019 7:09 am  
BrisbaneRhino wrote:
Realistically we can't increase the cap far enough to sign top flight NRL or RU players en masse. Even doubling the cap would mean we might pick up a few better NRL players but not much else beyond what the current marquee rules allow. The main difference might be in stopping players leaving for the NRL/RU.

So if we were to increase the cap, where would the money go apart from lining the pockets of existing players? I don't see any point in increasing the cap significantly without forcing clubs to spend on junior development, because that's where we're going to get 90% of our players from.

If you told any SL side they have 100% more to spend today, the first thing that would happen is all the existing players would have their hands out wanting rises. For zero benefit to the game. That's why you have to be very careful about increases and how they are managed.


Stop talking sense. This isn't the place for that.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain4160
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 18 20185 years30th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Mar 24 23:4025th Mar 24 12:01LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Relegation : Mon May 27, 2019 8:26 am  
At the moment it seems like we have become an active nursery for the NRL. Young lads coming through are hoping to raise their profile enough to get an offer from Aus. That’s actually pretty good for the national side in the medium term, but I’m not sure how sustainable that leaves domestic RL.

End of the day, if we want a competitive sport, older community-based clubs are going to have to increase interest. Otherwise for me we’re back into franchising.

Due to the demographic and commercial landscape in England, RL has some very serious challenges. The fixes are complex and in places too big.

One thing the game does need is Leadership with one vision, rather than a collection of egos waving their willies and acting in short term self interest.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach15864No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 09 200419 years181st
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Feb 24 21:0018th Oct 23 06:01LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Nottingham. 800 years ago outlaws stole from the rich. Little has changed here

Re: Relegation : Mon May 27, 2019 10:02 am  
The game is poorly run from the top in this country.

At the grass roots level there is passion and dedication to the game. At the top level there is no vision, no planning and no money.

The professional game is in a battle to stay alive in this country in the next decade
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BRK, leedsbarmyarmy, Prop-per Rhino's Fan, Rockinhorse, YosemiteSam and 392 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to Leeds Rhinos


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
5m
The official Leon Hayes Thread
Boss Hog
12
6m
The Good Friday Derby Massacre
Steve0
117
21m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
34254
22m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
55968
22m
No grade A for 2025 for Trinity
wrencat1873
20
42m
Rd 6 I Cas A
Rockinhorse
21
42m
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Catalans Home
Uncle Rico
11
42m
Saints a
Cherry_Warri
13
44m
TV Games - Not Hull
Steve0
1378
53m
Fevround 2
Wildthing
86
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
35s
TV Games - Not Hull
Steve0
1378
39s
Smith - should he stay or should he go
bonaire
345
59s
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
34254
1m
Halifax H
Maccbull_Big
32
1m
Saints a
Cherry_Warri
13
1m
The official Leon Hayes Thread
Boss Hog
12
1m
Challenge Cup
Captain Hook
34
3m
Challenge Cup 6th Round
Miserybusine
56
3m
2024 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Week 6
taxi4stevesm
23
5m
Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE
Zig
1933
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
The Wigan Way - New Podcast - Chairman Special
Jukesays
1
TODAY
Dons v Swinton Lions 30 June 2024
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad for Sheffield
AdamH
1
TODAY
London Away
Fartown58
1
TODAY
The Bulls away
Brew
7
TODAY
The official Leon Hayes Thread
Boss Hog
12
TODAY
Saints a
Cherry_Warri
13
TODAY
Leon Ruan signs on loan
Jemmo
2
TODAY
Wardle
Jo Jumbuck
3
TODAY
Huddersfield - Home
BigTime
5
TODAY
Max Wood on loan to Bradford 2 weeks
rubber ducki
7
TODAY
Jake Wardle 5 Year deal
Zig
22
TODAY
No grade A for 2025 for Trinity
wrencat1873
20
TODAY
Cup Quarter Final TV Arrangements
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Rd 6 I Cas A
Rockinhorse
21
TODAY
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Catalans Home
Uncle Rico
11
TODAY
Spare Tickets Friday
Azul
3
TODAY
RL Podcast
AgbriggAmble
1
TODAY
Challenge Cup
Captain Hook
34
TODAY
2024 Challenge Cup Quarter Final Draw
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Cup Quarter Final TV Arrangeme..
472
2024 Challenge Cup Quarter Fin..
587
Easy Does It For The Dragons A..
524
Warrington Demolish London For..
640
Leigh Leopards Beat Plucky Fea..
691
Saints Triumph Over Disappoint..
661
Easy Win for the Wolves Over L..
913
Dragons Condemn Castleford To ..
894
Leigh Leopards Secure First Po..
1043
St Helens Tame The Rhinos To W..
1011
Wigan Warriors Come From Behin..
1068
Betfred Championship and Leagu..
1057
2024 Challenge Cup Sixth Round..
3830
Featherstone Win Extra Time Cu..
1178
Dragons Triumph Over Hull FC t..
1059
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Table 'boards.stats_fixtures' doesn't exist