Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:29 pm  

Father Ted wrote:

As for looking after the democratic vote of 2016, there was a 1.27m majority on a turnout of 33.5m The 1.27m disappeared a long time ago. So now there is no majority for Leave, no mandate and no reason to Leave.

Wow, have we just had another referendum i missed?

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:59 pm  

Biff Tannen wrote:

Wow, have we just had another referendum i missed?

I was just sat here pondering the same.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:02 pm  

Father Ted wrote:

As for looking after the democratic vote of 2016, there was a 1.27m majority on a turnout of 33.5m The 1.27m disappeared a long time ago. So now there is no majority for Leave, no mandate and no reason to Leave.

Out of my depth on this particular forum so rarely if ever comment on here, however I voted remain, but as a country we voted to leave, and I accept that. Any future vote on the issue of Brexit, whether I agree with it or not, would be for us to leave - that is the democratic choice we made. Anything else makes a people’s choice a joke.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:29 pm  

ColD wrote:

Out of my depth on this particular forum so rarely if ever comment on here, however I voted remain, but as a country we voted to leave, and I accept that. Any future vote on the issue of Brexit, whether I agree with it or not, would be for us to leave - that is the democratic choice we made. Anything else makes a people’s choice a joke.

Absolutely right. But there are two main issues. No majority to get anything through in Parliament, and the fact the majority of MPs are actually remainers and are doing everything they can to avoid Brexit in the hope that somehow they can force a 2nd referendum or cancel the whole thing.

Today was a shambles. Labour making up manufactured excuses not to back the deal, the rest rejecting it out of hand simply because they reject Brexit.

There are some strong signals out of Brussels tonight that no extension will be granted. Letwin and Benn can take a long walk off Wigan Pier. The 31st would once again be the deadline set in stone and I imagine the new deal would be put to Parliament again this week. At that point MPs are simply voting for the new deal, or no deal. There really is only one option.

But - even though I think Johnson and several EU figureheads have quietly agreed to this strategy I actually think most in the EU won't have the cojones to reject an extension and the merry-go-round will continue.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:54 pm  

It seems Boris has sent the letter as required by the Benn act, albeit unsigned. He has accompanied it with a (signed) letter stating he believes any delay would be a mistake, and has also phoned EU leaders to clarify this is 'Parliament's letter, not mine.'

I wonder how EU law handles legal requests made under coercion?

The plot thickens.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:53 pm  

Cronus wrote:

But - even though I think Johnson and several EU figureheads have quietly agreed to this strategy I actually think most in the EU won't have the cojones to reject an extension and the merry-go-round will continue.

It only takes one one EU country’s leader to veto the request, so either Johnson has or can get an agreement of this type or not.

I think EU representatives would be wise to signal that any delay depends on MPs voting for something, anything very, very soon. The prevarication now is stunning.

Cronus wrote:

It seems Boris has sent the letter as required by the Benn act, albeit unsigned. He has accompanied it with a (signed) letter stating he believes any delay would be a mistake.

I wonder how EU law handles legal requests made under coercion?

The plot thickens.

It is ridiculous that parliament has made Johnson a puppet rather than putting in a caretaker prime minister, and the blame for that lies mostly with Corbyn imo. ‘Coercion’ is pushing it though, the lad could have resigned.

I’ve knocked the Brexit coalition for being a mixed bad of competing priorities. But I don’t hold out a great deal of hope for much productive coming from one now including the Labour, the Lib Dems, the DUP et al. either.

I would never criticise anybody for distrusting Boris Johnson. However, he can be expected to pursue his own political self-interest, libidinous misjudgements aside. This deal is potentially a first garland of his premiership, so no deal is now just leverage - or it was. And the ERG don’t have the numbers to play that trick, even if they wanted to - I wouldn’t put it past them but they probably don’t.

As long as there is no agreed alternative to implementing the Conservative Government’s deal with the EU, there’s no justification for blocking it, and the moment is passing right now. Yes, many people of think it is poop for numerous and disparate reasons. But the Remain/Brexit sceptic position is now utterly incoherent, whereas Johnson has given the Brexiteers one that is, despite its inevitable faults and limitations, at least clear and easily understood.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:44 pm  

The reason why the deal wasnt voted through yesterday is that MPs dont trust Johnson. He tells lies. The deal as tabled could have led to a no deal brexit and as parliament is there to represent all of the people not just the 52%, such an extreme version of brexit needs to be eliminated.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:08 pm  

How can the EU ever negotiate with us with any degree of confidence that the UK parliament would actually pass anything? The Labour concerns about Labour laws and environmental is just a smokescreen for trying to embarrass Johnson. Marr stopped Vine asking the question today - please show us Jeremy one worker right that has been directly impacted by this deal? Show us one environmental policy that has negatively been impacted by this deal? Does Corbyn really think the Tories can win an election on the back of reducing existing workers rights - really?

The idea that we could force our PM to cow down to the EU is frankly abhorrent - which side are these MPs on? The fact that 6 MPs went to Brussels last week to ask them to not negotiate with Johnson would be treason in the old days and IIRC still carries the death penalty?

Labour have been asking for a GE for since 2017, they get the opportunity but decline because "we don't want no deal" - so today not deal is going to be taken off the table so logic says Labour will table a motion of no confidence - not according to Starmer on Marr - bunch of yellow-belly hypocrites. Labour will get obliterated in GE with Corbyn as leader they know it.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:27 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

How can the EU ever negotiate with us with any degree of confidence that the UK parliament would actually pass anything? The Labour concerns about Labour laws and environmental is just a smokescreen for trying to embarrass Johnson. Marr stopped Vine asking the question today - please show us Jeremy one worker right that has been directly impacted by this deal? Show us one environmental policy that has negatively been impacted by this deal? Does Corbyn really think the Tories can win an election on the back of reducing existing workers rights - really?

The idea that we could force our PM to cow down to the EU is frankly abhorrent - which side are these MPs on? The fact that 6 MPs went to Brussels last week to ask them to not negotiate with Johnson would be treason in the old days and IIRC still carries the death penalty?

Europeans are not the enemy, they are our trading partners.
People who want the best for the country but have opposing views to you are not traitors.
People who set out their own red lines should not be shot for treason.


I wonder what caused you to have this genuinely disturbing mentality and how deeply rooted it is amongst your fellow Brexiteers. Most grown adults don't talk and think like this.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:27 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

How can the EU ever negotiate with us with any degree of confidence that the UK parliament would actually pass anything? The Labour concerns about Labour laws and environmental is just a smokescreen for trying to embarrass Johnson. Marr stopped Vine asking the question today - please show us Jeremy one worker right that has been directly impacted by this deal? Show us one environmental policy that has negatively been impacted by this deal? Does Corbyn really think the Tories can win an election on the back of reducing existing workers rights - really?

The idea that we could force our PM to cow down to the EU is frankly abhorrent - which side are these MPs on? The fact that 6 MPs went to Brussels last week to ask them to not negotiate with Johnson would be treason in the old days and IIRC still carries the death penalty?

Labour have been asking for a GE for since 2017, they get the opportunity but decline because "we don't want no deal" - so today not deal is going to be taken off the table so logic says Labour will table a motion of no confidence - not according to Starmer on Marr - bunch of yellow-belly hypocrites. Labour will get obliterated in GE with Corbyn as leader they know it.

You talk about treason but were happy for the Prime Minister , along with Farage to blatantly lie to all of us.
Which people actually conned the country ?

The "easy" free trade agreement and leaving the EU, currently involves throwing N. Ireland under a political bus.
ALL of the promises made were without any knowledge or idea of how they would be implemented and the Prime Minister seems happy to play fast and loose with the law.
It's a great example and seems to be in contempt of the law, although it's probably just about legal.

Remember the "control" that Boris and Farage wanted was to have the UK Parliament and judiciary as the lawmakers of the land but, it does seem that, he's not too happy with either.

IF Boris (or May before him) had been able to achieve half the deal that "vote Leave" promised, Brexit would have sailed through the Commons.
However, it was always impossible to deliver what was promised and still is.

It's going to be another interesting week in Westminster, although, I actually expect that the deal will go through later in the week.