[DaveO]

Re: Ian Millward : Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:54 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

I agree that his mismatches arent correct, it was FAR FAR WORSE than portrayed above. I'm not going to make those comparisons as I cant bring myself to type some of the names involved.

PS Brown played centre the majority of 04/05

What is correct is this

Even when we were slightly more successful a few years earlier the transfer policy still seemed to be let's get who can as quick as we can, which was ok when we had the Rads, Connolly,Cassidy,Farrell,o'Connors/Betts of the world to back them up.

When we lost those players circa 2003 thru end of 2004 it was a disaster waiting to happen.
And the transfer policy coupled with the alarming lack of an organised pathway for youth development was exposed.

Now then, there was some bad luck couple dwith that in terms of injuries etc.

But it took until 2008 (and anyone who was at the Deanery high school fans forum can probably vouch for this) for the whole thing to be unpicked and new systems, processes, youth development pathways and probably as importantly as anything else the salary cap distribution between the top players evened out better and co tracts run down and renegotiated for it all to turn round.

The mess of 2005/6/7 was turned around in 2008/9 and was paramount to the fortunes and success of 2010 onwards.

Best thing to happen to Wigan RLFC in 30 years at that point.

We certainly did have a lot of experienced players retire or leave at the same time but it was also around this time players like Hock, Hansen and Lockers arrived on the scene. Brown was hailed as something special as will (with Stevo buying him a watch for what he thought was a MoM performance). There were other young players making their way through back then such as Goulding so I don't think it's fair to say there was no planning. We had a good production line back then some of whom went on to provide the backbone of Madge and Wanes teams. If there was a failing it was lack of an experienced side for them to slot into.

Recruitment, transfer policy and planning remains a hot topic now under IL. The fact Lockers and Tommy have gone on as long as they have is just as bad a bit of succession planning as anything under the previous regime. Giving Clubb a two year extension hardly went without more than a few negative comments. That's three senior players who should have hung up their boots by now. As to people pointing out Moran as an awful signing, what about the farce that was the signing of Andy Powell under IL?

It's pretty easy to point to failings of past regimes but the current one is not without its faults.

As to players who were brought in back in 2006 there were some dire panic buys but what was striking about 2006 was a change of coach and the addition of two players, Fielden and Dobson, completely turned the teams performances around. They didn't replace the entire team. I bet Millward was more than a bit miffed he wasn't given those two players to add to his team when the wheels were coming off.

Re: Ian Millward : Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:22 pm  

DaveO wrote:

I think you are stretching it a bit with some of those match ups. Since when was Brown a recognised centre? Wild was also a mainly back row forward wasn't he? As to Hansen, he was a good player, a first team regular and played 243 games for us in a nine year career from 2004-13. If you meant he was a young player back then, 2006 was his third season in the first team.

What? As mentioned Brown was obviously a centre, played 18 games there in 2004 and only played in the halves to deputise Moran/Orr later on. And Stephen Wild played 24 games at centre in 2004 and 50/50 in 2005.

Obviously I wasn't saying Hansen had a poor career with us - the point was we replaced Cassidy/Farrell with 18 year olds from the academy. If O'Loughlin hadn't got over his ACL so well in 2006 we would've been even more screwed.

Re: Ian Millward : Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:08 pm  

DaveO wrote:

We certainly did have a lot of experienced players retire or leave at the same time but it was also around this time players like Hock, Hansen and Lockers arrived on the scene. Brown was hailed as something special as will (with Stevo buying him a watch for what he thought was a MoM performance). There were other young players making their way through back then such as Goulding so I don't think it's fair to say there was no planning. We had a good production line back then some of whom went on to provide the backbone of Madge and Wanes teams. If there was a failing it was lack of an experienced side for them to slot into.

Recruitment, transfer policy and planning remains a hot topic now under IL. The fact Lockers and Tommy have gone on as long as they have is just as bad a bit of succession planning as anything under the previous regime. Giving Clubb a two year extension hardly went without more than a few negative comments. That's three senior players who should have hung up their boots by now. As to people pointing out Moran as an awful signing, what about the farce that was the signing of Andy Powell under IL?

It's pretty easy to point to failings of past regimes but the current one is not without its faults.

As to players who were brought in back in 2006 there were some dire panic buys but what was striking about 2006 was a change of coach and the addition of two players, Fielden and Dobson, completely turned the teams performances around. They didn't replace the entire team. I bet Millward was more than a bit miffed he wasn't given those two players to add to his team when the wheels were coming off.

You heard of SALARY CAP?

And I specifically replied because I knew you were defending the Management back then to counter it and try and promote criticism of today's management.

99_07 compared to 08-18 is like night and day.
Its ok talking about producing Brown/Robinson/wild/Aspinwall, but they were far too young at the time to carry the team forward and where did they end up?
In the pursuit of a quick solution we paid far too much for the "Saviours" of our 2006 season and proceeding that Feka, Richard's, seu seu, calderwood etc and couldnt hold on to the youngsters we could have.
Maurice and Dave's answer was to go and buy a solution short term, but long term that messed our salary cap up for years.
Mo probably thought he could/would talk his way around it.
Dave thought hed bully the RFL into letting him get away with it (Remember him crying to the press that the RFL should do away with salary cap, whilst crying to the football league and PL that he coudlnt compete in football with out a salary cap).

That deanery forum was alarming
In 2006/7 we were paying something like 75% of salary cap to 25% of the players.
The top 4/5 earners were taking all the money (Fielden/calderwood/Feka and Richard's are the names that spring to mind).
Unsustainable
Never mind how the other players in the squad and juniors were being treated and paid.

IFL may have made some mistakes, Andy Powell, karl pryce and I'm sure theres others.
But none of them jeopardises the bigger picture and the youth development and systems/processes.

Not a big lover of the salary cap, but if that's the game then IFL played it 10xtimes or more better than the previous regime

Re: Ian Millward : Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:59 pm  

Woah woah woah. Don't be giving big Karl Pryce grief

Re: Ian Millward : Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:26 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

Woah woah woah. Don't be giving big Karl Pryce grief

Tbh, I was ok with him, could have done more but wasnt in his character to be that kind of player.

Re: Ian Millward : Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:12 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Tbh, I was ok with him, could have done more but wasnt in his character to be that kind of player.

had everything to be one of the best except heart, Imagine him with the heart of Manfedi....frightening

Re: Ian Millward : Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:30 pm  

Pieman wrote:

had everything to be one of the best except heart, Imagine him with the heart of Manfedi....frightening

I agree, but you put summat there where there is Nowt.
But if you just look st his performances and ignore he could have been so much more, they were actually ok.
Believe it or not, still only 33!!!

Re: Ian Millward : Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:31 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

I agree, but you put summat there where there is Nowt.
But if you just look st his performances and ignore he could have been so much more, they were actually ok.
Believe it or not, still only 33!!!

yeah he was young eh

Re: Ian Millward : Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:45 pm  

Jukesays wrote: I agree, but you put summat there where there is Nowt. But if you just look st his performances and ignore he could have been so much more, they were actually ok. Believe it or not, still only 33!!! Just looked him up on Wikipedia, not having it he only played 15 games for us https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Pryce

Jukesays wrote: I agree, but you put summat there where there is Nowt. But if you just look st his performances and ignore he could have been so much more, they were actually ok. Believe it or not, still only 33!!! Just looked him up on Wikipedia, not having it he only played 15 games for us https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Pryce

Re: Ian Millward : Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:10 pm  

Bilko has 16 games (14 starts) 16 tries.

That's a better strike rate than Brett Dallas AND Jason Robinson. Just saying