Re: Zak Hardaker : Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:32 pm  

ratticusfinch wrote:

Indeed, just pointing out the morally dubious decisions your club continues to make (regardless of who is in charge) - but you win the trophies and we don't!
I understand that Wigan are looking after the welfare of the player and the wider community as they did with Bateman. Joel 'nowhere near as good' Tomkins wasn't afforded such a luxury though strangely enough.

Well you've hit the nail on the head about Joel Tomkins not being as good. Morality can be flexed a bit depending on how good the player is. We signed Les Boyd when he was banned in Australia for eye gouging. For a lot of players, that would have made them toxic and nobody would touch them, but when it came to the opportunity to sign one of the Invincibles, morals could be compromised.

Wigan are in a difficult position here. They've taken a big gamble, as did Cas before, on Hardaker and have released Sam Tomkins now so if they tear up Hardaker's contract they have a recruitment problem. Plus, Wigan would fear Hardaker turning up somewhere else and having a storming season and then living with regret.

So how many 'last chance saloons' does Hardaker get? The answer probably depends on how long he can still convince people that he is an elite player. If next season he plays and has Man of Steel standard form again, he can probably get away with doing something else bad and even if Wigan's hand is forced to get rid of him he would have offers coming in from top clubs. The moment he starts to slide, he will begin on the spiral of being passed around the lower ranked clubs, like happened to Gareth Hock.

Re: Zak Hardaker : Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:34 pm  

I think the close knit at Wigan under Wane has been what held Bateman in.
I think Wane would have sorted out Zac too.
I have to leave a big question mark under Lam without Ian (I pull rank up my own backside) Lenegan being able to achieve such a bond.
Everything about Lenegan is like it's a business and not a community sports team feel. It's like the fans support is just an obligation to him.

Re: Zak Hardaker : Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:47 pm  

rubber duckie wrote:

I think the close knit at Wigan under Wane has been what held Bateman in.
I think Wane would have sorted out Zac too.
I have to leave a big question mark under Lam without Ian (I pull rank up my own backside) Lenegan being able to achieve such a bond.
Everything about Lenegan is like it's a business and not a community sports team feel. It's like the fans support is just an obligation to him.

I'm not so sure that Wane wanted to recruit ZH, and it makes you wonder what other antics haven't made the public domain due to no camera's or police involvement. It will be interesting how Lam's caretaker role will go, and as you surmise, I'd agree that it's been IL's decision to keep ZH and will remain so.

Re: Zak Hardaker : Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:35 pm  

I'll give it 6 months before he fooks up again. Ticking time bomb.

Re: Zak Hardaker : Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:33 pm  

Perhaps the signing of Zak & the Tomkins shenanigans are what has prompted Wane to move on.

Re: Zak Hardaker : Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:08 pm  

MorePlaymakersNeeded wrote:

I'm not so sure that Wane wanted to recruit ZH, and it makes you wonder what other antics haven't made the public domain due to no camera's or police involvement. It will be interesting how Lam's caretaker role will go, and as you surmise, I'd agree that it's been IL's decision to keep ZH and will remain so.

No I'm 100% sure he didn't.
But he was already told to resign and following it some of his lads couldn't stand it and went too.
OK it Sam because IL had already said I'm not paying you the same money...well I can tell you he rammed those words right down IL throat. One small consolation from being beaten. I can't stand IL the smarmy git.

Re: Zak Hardaker : Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:02 pm  

ninearches wrote:

Perhaps the signing of Zak & the Tomkins shenanigans are what has prompted Wane to move on.

It was well documented on other Wigan forums that this was the reason why Wane left Wigan.

Re: Zak Hardaker : Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:09 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I’m not daft enough to suggest we’re doing anything out of the goodness of our hearts but honestly the current owner isn’t in the league of Dave Whelan when it comes to be a total ball bag. It’s pointless bringing the Mike Greg situation in to any debate about Wigan’s morals because that was down to people not the club and they’re not involved anymore. I doubt they would’ve looked after Macauley Davies the way the current regime are trying to do for example.

OK, we could possibly accept your explanation with regards club ownership.

However, the fans support goes on seamlessly as owners come and go.

Did you attend the Mike Gregory Charity game?

I don`t recall seeing ANY Cherry and White colours at that match.

Re: Zak Hardaker : Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:11 pm  

Builth Wells Wire wrote:

Been done for Drink driving - no insurance - no MOT - owning a Fiesta - failing a drugs test - making homophobic comments - alleged assault of a 22-year-old student - Not bad for a 26-year-old. When does the book come out?

He'll let you know, when he's finished colouring it in

Re: Zak Hardaker : Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:32 pm  

rubber duckie wrote:

I think the close knit at Wigan under Wane has been what held Bateman in.
I think Wane would have sorted out Zac too.

I agree with you here duckie and I think Wane brought a really healthy culture to Wigan which is also why they have done so well bringing young lads through and also they are so effective as a team.

Back in 2003 when Mike Gregory became their coach, I remember him talking a few times about the culture he wanted to create there, hard work, honesty, integrity, no egos. At the time it was quite different because Wigan for 5 years since their last Grand Final win, had had a series of big name signings, some from the NRL, some British, that were a bit hit and miss, and they were a team that had underachieved compared to the quality of players. But they had a lot of young players coming through at this time and a chance to rebuild a culture with a receptive and talented group of young players. Sadly Mike Gregory's tragic illness cut that idea short, and then Millward came in and they got chaos. A few years later I ended up chatting to one of those young Wigan players who had come through under Gregory who basically said when Mike was there we were building a really positive culture, then in comes Basil and everything went wrong.

Whilst Michael McGuire taught them how to win again, I think Wane brought in the kind of culture that Mike Gregory had been hoping for, and it has been a great basis to build success. They have been able to achieve more than the sum of their parts on paper and maintain consistent success and assimilate new players in seamlessly, like Leeds did where they had a similar culture for so long.

Signing Hardaker threatens that because he's someone they will always be fearing will let the dressing room down. He's a big name with a chequered past when the rest of them are non-celebs who just get on with it.

Anyway they have Edwards coming in a year, who will certainly maintain that culture, in fact he will probably combine the best of the Wane approach with an extra unbending will to win, and will have the authority to sort out any duckhead behaviour in an instant. I can see Wigan being the benchmark team in the years ahead.