Re: The Art of Spin..... : Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:42 pm  

Call Me God wrote:

9,067 is the average for the 4 seasons since licencing was aborted. The number for the last 4 seasons of Licensing? 9,293.........the last 4 years before licensing 9.538....changing the format is akin to swapping deckchairs on the Titanic.....pointless.....the trend is downward.

Bradford’s presence/non presence in those different time periods will have a key baring in the differences. At the start of that earliest period you list they were still getting 5 figure crowds.

Re: The Art of Spin..... : Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:50 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

Bradford’s presence/non presence in those different time periods will have a key baring in the differences. At the start of that earliest period you list they were still getting 5 figure crowds.

In a nutshell, this is the problem with the game. If Leeds or Wigan were to vanish and be replaced by Toronto/Toulouse, we'd see another 5%+ drop....and it's a drop that the game can't afford.Regardless of relegation/Promotion, the games governing body and the owners need to up their game.........

........BTW......London in 2006 averaged 4,700.........over double their average this year to date and Leeds were on 14,200 and Wigan 14,500.......the spiral is downward, no matter how some would spin it!

Re: The Art of Spin..... : Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:55 pm  

Call Me God wrote:

In a nutshell, this is the problem with the game. If Leeds or Wigan were to vanish and be replaced by Toronto/Toulouse, we'd see another 5%+ drop....and it's a drop that the game can't afford.Regardless of relegation/Promotion, the games governing body and the owners need to up their game.........

........BTW......London in 2006 averaged 4,700.........over double their average this year to date and Leeds were on 14,200 and Wigan 14,500.......the spiral is downward, no matter how some would spin it!

Again, Leeds are at limited capacity - 13,500 I believe. So why you include them at this moment I don’t know. Look at their numbers constantly and they’ve stayed at 15k -15,500k for several years. Let’s see what they get in 2020 with all the ground open all season long.

Re: The Art of Spin..... : Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:31 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

Again, Leeds are at limited capacity - 13,500 I believe. So why you include them at this moment I don’t know. Look at their numbers constantly and they’ve stayed at 15k -15,500k for several years. Let’s see what they get in 2020 with all the ground open all season long.

Leeds could be playing out of a building site......or Elland Road which they did last year. I get it that you think that they'll be back up again in 2020, but a 13,500 limit should really mean that a 13,500 HOUSE FULL poster would have been up at their games thus far....it hasn't!........if there are 15,500 fans, then the clamor for tickets would dictate full houses......and across the board, gates are in a downward spiral.
Wakefield, sitting 4th on the ladder have a 5k average....Castleford in 3rd 7,800.....hardly "super" and the slight up in their gates is negated by the drop at Wigan (forget leeds if it upsets you so much......)...FC are running a K down as well.....

Since 2006 we have seen numbers decrease......SPIN IT as you like blaming building work, Bradford going down or the dog eating your homework, it doesn't change the fact that numbers are down!

Re: The Art of Spin..... : Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:49 pm  

Call Me God wrote:

Leeds could be playing out of a building site......or Elland Road which they did last year. I get it that you think that they'll be back up again in 2020, but a 13,500 limit should really mean that a 13,500 HOUSE FULL poster would have been up at their games thus far....it hasn't!........if there are 15,500 fans, then the clamor for tickets would dictate full houses......and across the board, gates are in a downward spiral.
Wakefield, sitting 4th on the ladder have a 5k average....Castleford in 3rd 7,800.....hardly "super" and the slight up in their gates is negated by the drop at Wigan (forget leeds if it upsets you so much......)...FC are running a K down as well.....

Since 2006 we have seen numbers decrease......SPIN IT as you like blaming building work, Bradford going down or the dog eating your homework, it doesn't change the fact that numbers are down!

No I agree others should be doing better, Wigan’s drop over the years is poor. But criticising a club that has limited capacity at the moment is ridiculous and i don’t think you really thought about it or knew their stadium capacity limit before you highlighted them and are just digging a hole in this one.

Could’ve played at Elland Road all last year, but no guarantee Leeds Utd would let us, also the club said the cost of playing there was s factor. Could’ve got a bigger crowd but it’d be money going into Leeds Utd’s pockets instead of Leeds Rhinos.

Not all fans who have spent years in the main touch line stands were keen in being packed in like sardines behind the posts and put some off. When we played at Elland Road last year we got 16k plus vs HKR the week before a WCC game in Australia and 23k vs Cas so more than confident that when we have the stadium up to capacity we’ll be fine.

The irony that you complain of others spinning it but when you post figures with no context you don’t like them being given any context or debated. Quite hypocritical.

Re: The Art of Spin..... : Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:31 am  

ThePrinter wrote:

No I agree others should be doing better, Wigan’s drop over the years is poor. But criticising a club that has limited capacity at the moment is ridiculous and i don’t think you really thought about it or knew their stadium capacity limit before you highlighted them and are just digging a hole in this one.

Could’ve played at Elland Road all last year, but no guarantee Leeds Utd would let us, also the club said the cost of playing there was s factor. Could’ve got a bigger crowd but it’d be money going into Leeds Utd’s pockets instead of Leeds Rhinos.

Not all fans who have spent years in the main touch line stands were keen in being packed in like sardines behind the posts and put some off. When we played at Elland Road last year we got 16k plus vs HKR the week before a WCC game in Australia and 23k vs Cas so more than confident that when we have the stadium up to capacity we’ll be fine.

The irony that you complain of others spinning it but when you post figures with no context you don’t like them being given any context or debated. Quite hypocritical.

If I were selling oranges and my shop was up for refurbishment, but I knew I was the #1 orange seller in town, would I:
A/ just sell fewer oranges and run the risk of my buyers going elsewhere
or
B/ Take a hit on the rent of another shop for a couple of years and make sure my Orange buyers requirements were met?

Attending games is a habit......those fans who've not bothered for 2 years may not bother again........or they might, but I for one would have treated them with the ultimate respect and courtesy when the building work was being done.

As for digging a hole? I am someone who posts and deals in facts......I am fully aware that Leeds have had a reduced capacity over the last couple of years.....but my point is that id they were limited to 12,800 or 13,500, surely the rush for tickets would have seen HOUSE FULL posters......it hasn't!

Re: The Art of Spin..... : Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:01 am  

Call Me God wrote:

If I were selling oranges and my shop was up for refurbishment, but I knew I was the #1 orange seller in town, would I:
A/ just sell fewer oranges and run the risk of my buyers going elsewhere
or
B/ Take a hit on the rent of another shop for a couple of years and make sure my Orange buyers requirements were met?

Attending games is a habit......those fans who've not bothered for 2 years may not bother again........or they might, but I for one would have treated them with the ultimate respect and courtesy when the building work was being done.

As for digging a hole? I am someone who posts and deals in facts......I am fully aware that Leeds have had a reduced capacity over the last couple of years.....but my point is that id they were limited to 12,800 or 13,500, surely the rush for tickets would have seen HOUSE FULL posters......it hasn't!

That orange comparison to being a fan of a CERTAIN sports team really is extremely bad. If you like oranges you can go elsewhere and get the exact same product. If you’re a Leeds fan, possibly for decades you can’t get that anywhere else.

Whilst yes the force of habit can have an effect you just put the effort/time/resources/promotion etc. in to make sure you get them back and/or new fans in and you’ve got nothing say Leeds won’t be doing just that.

Re: The Art of Spin..... : Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:51 am  

Call Me God wrote:

If I were selling oranges and my shop was up for refurbishment, but I knew I was the #1 orange seller in town, would I:
A/ just sell fewer oranges and run the risk of my buyers going elsewhere
or
B/ Take a hit on the rent of another shop for a couple of years and make sure my Orange buyers requirements were met?

Attending games is a habit......those fans who've not bothered for 2 years may not bother again........or they might, but I for one would have treated them with the ultimate respect and courtesy when the building work was being done.

As for digging a hole? I am someone who posts and deals in facts......I am fully aware that Leeds have had a reduced capacity over the last couple of years.....but my point is that id they were limited to 12,800 or 13,500, surely the rush for tickets would have seen HOUSE FULL posters......it hasn't!

You’re right. Attending games is a habit. Whatever you do in this situation is changing that habit. Leeds could have played at Elland Road every week. But that wouldn’t have increased crowds particularly. Yes Leeds got high crowds for 2 games there last season. But they were one-off’s. That crowd level would not have been there all season because, as you say, it’s a habit and Rhinos fans habits are going to their spot or seat at Headingley not Elland Road.

Re: The Art of Spin..... : Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:34 am  

With regards Leeds, doesn't help having both Leeds teams playing at the same time. Twice this season from memory I've known a number of regular Rhinos fans have to choose between the rugby and football. The choice of a team fighting for promotion to the Premiership or a team that is just bad to watch. Its an easy choice there straightaway.

With Easter, this year is the first time in years I've done both Easter games. Its just not practical to do both normally. Its a long weekend, I'd like to get away for a few days and that's my choice. I'd probably be more inclined to pick my teams home game to attend and miss the away game. Possibly the same for many others with familys

Re: The Art of Spin..... : Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:56 pm  

Him wrote:

You’re right. Attending games is a habit. Whatever you do in this situation is changing that habit. Leeds could have played at Elland Road every week. But that wouldn’t have increased crowds particularly. Yes Leeds got high crowds for 2 games there last season. But they were one-off’s. That crowd level would not have been there all season because, as you say, it’s a habit and Rhinos fans habits are going to their spot or seat at Headingley not Elland Road.

Spot on, I recall when some fans suggested moving to Elland Road for the full season, plenty said they wouldn’t get season tickets if they did.