Re: New stadium dream all but over : Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:39 pm  

SaleSlim wrote:

One thing that's galling from a Salford fan's point of view is that we were told circa 20 years ago to move our of The Willows and get a new ground or be booted out of SL (as I believe were the likes of Cas & Wakey). To have to leave your spiritual home in the heart of the community to a ground 3 1/2 / 4 miles away is bad enough but we ended up in a spot that had nothing around it for pre/post match drinks (part of the match day experience for a lot of fans). Add in the last 5/6 years of traffic issues which have now gladly eased with the link road and it's taken a long time for fans to call the AJ Bell our home (it will still never replace The Willows) When you then also factor in that the club gets NO REVENUE at all from match day food/drink sales and you should be able to understand why we feel we've been shafted royally by the RFL/SL.

Nothing against Wakey & Cas at all but they've managed to dodge the bullet which was pointing right at our temple and it still rankles as our move to the AJ Bell almost saw us almost go under before Koukash came in and saved us from oblivion.

It's this I don't get, how the hell have we dodged a bullet FFS. I'm truly gutted for you as you sit in your brand new stadium I really am, as we bullet dodgers sit shivering in our slums waiting to be kicked out if something doesn't happen soon. Seriously do you think that where we are now, which is more or less nowhere is where we wanted to be, by what logic do you come to that conclusion?

Let's get this straight, we have a huge mortgage on BV and as yet we do not have a penny to do it up. If we dodged a bullet then the bayonet didn't miss did it.

Yes I understand the trauma of leaving the Willows, I do, but at the end of the day, you are safe in that you are the masters of your own destiny. Both Trinity and Cas remain on a knife-edge. You want that then you're welcome mate.

Re: New stadium dream all but over : Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:44 pm  

Unfortunately there really aren't any winners in this situation, and the piling on is nonsensical.

There's no question Wakefield have been strung along, particuarly when it comes to the YorCourt / NEWCOLD situation. That really needed an enquiry into why that Section 106 was not properly enforced.

Castleford's situation is equally frustrating, but betting the farm on retail developments was always going to come with inherent risk when you look at how retail has changed since the recession. Warrington and St Helens were fortunate that their developments went through before Tesco reviewed its policy on "hypermarket" style developments.

Nobody wants to see the game still being played in venues that aren't suitable for 21st century professional sport, but the gloating and finger pointing isn't helpful. Yes, there are valid points to make about how the clubs have gone about their respective stadium projects, but they're not entirely to blame.

Re: New stadium dream all but over : Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:09 pm  

Fishermanscap wrote:

It's this I don't get, how the hell have we dodged a bullet FFS. I'm truly gutted for you as you sit in your brand new stadium I really am, as we bullet dodgers sit shivering in our slums waiting to be kicked out if something doesn't happen soon. Seriously do you think that where we are now, which is more or less nowhere is where we wanted to be, by what logic do you come to that conclusion?

Let's get this straight, we have a huge mortgage on BV and as yet we do not have a penny to do it up. If we dodged a bullet then the bayonet didn't miss did it.

Yes I understand the trauma of leaving the Willows, I do, but at the end of the day, you are safe in that you are the masters of your own destiny. Both Trinity and Cas remain on a knife-edge. You want that then you're welcome mate.

You obviously missed the bit about us making NO MATCH DAY REVENUE (except ticket sales) and having lost income from the likes of the Variety Centre and Vault Bar, which were an integral income stream at The Willows. You also missed the part about alienating fans by moving out of the heart of the city. Apart from Saints (who have a successful team and a lot larger fan base) I can't think of any other SL club whose ground is in a more fan-unfriendly spot. I forgot to mention the continual excuses from away fans saying they can't get to the AJ Bell as it's situated somewhere just outside the Arctic Circle (and subsequent further loss in income)

Cas & Wakey may still be in dilapidated grounds but at least they're taking in a decent amount of revenue and actually own their grounds. We were bullied into moving with threats of expulsion yet 8 years after we played our final game at The Willows Cas & Wakey are still part of the SL set-up.

Don't get me wrong, considering they're from the "dark side" I actually have a lot of time for both clubs, there just appears to be a set of double standards in relation to how the whole stadium shenanigans have been handled.

Re: New stadium dream all but over : Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:57 pm  

rollin thunder wrote:

i said sham slum of a club not ground, and i did create that statement and apologized. so can you remove your chips now.

Carlsberg don't admit they are wrong, but if they did

Re: New stadium dream all but over : Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:35 pm  

SaleSlim wrote:

One thing that's galling from a Salford fan's point of view is that we were told circa 20 years ago to move our of The Willows and get a new ground or be booted out of SL (as I believe were the likes of Cas & Wakey). To have to leave your spiritual home in the heart of the community to a ground 3 1/2 / 4 miles away is bad enough but we ended up in a spot that had nothing around it for pre/post match drinks (part of the match day experience for a lot of fans). Add in the last 5/6 years of traffic issues which have now gladly eased with the link road and it's taken a long time for fans to call the AJ Bell our home (it will still never replace The Willows) When you then also factor in that the club gets NO REVENUE at all from match day food/drink sales and you should be able to understand why we feel we've been shafted royally by the RFL/SL.

Nothing against Wakey & Cas at all but they've managed to dodge the bullet which was pointing right at our temple and it still rankles as our move to the AJ Bell almost saw us almost go under before Koukash came in and saved us from oblivion.

Cant argue with any of that and to say that things should have been done differently / better is an understatement.

The Willows wouldn't have taken too much to upgrade and you could have then retained the matchday income, which may have been possible had Koucash come into the club before the AJ Bell was decided ?

The new place is in a nicer part of town though

Re: New stadium dream all but over : Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:49 pm  

SaleSlim wrote:

You obviously missed the bit about us making NO MATCH DAY REVENUE (except ticket sales) and having lost income from the likes of the Variety Centre and Vault Bar, which were an integral income stream at The Willows. You also missed the part about alienating fans by moving out of the heart of the city. Apart from Saints (who have a successful team and a lot larger fan base) I can't think of any other SL club whose ground is in a more fan-unfriendly spot. I forgot to mention the continual excuses from away fans saying they can't get to the AJ Bell as it's situated somewhere just outside the Arctic Circle (and subsequent further loss in income)

Talking of no match day revenue, what about those young scallys what used to charge you 50p for looking after your car when you parked near the chinese chippy on match days

Re: New stadium dream all but over : Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:09 pm  

little wayne69 wrote:

Talking of no match day revenue, what about those young scallys what used to charge you 50p for looking after your car when you parked near the chinese chippy on match days

One of my favourite jokes of all time

"iwent to Anfield the other day to watch a match. A scouse lad said, 'Can I mind your car for you mister?' I said, 'No! And for your information, there's a Rottweiler in the back.' The lad said: 'Put out fires, can he?"

Re: New stadium dream all but over : Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:20 pm  

little wayne69 wrote:

Talking of no match day revenue, what about those young scallys what used to charge you 50p for looking after your car when you parked near the chinese chippy on match days

That's £5.50 cheaper than they charge at the ground these days so what you complaining about you tight bar steward?

Re: New stadium dream all but over : Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:22 am  

SaleSlim wrote:

You obviously missed the bit about us making NO MATCH DAY REVENUE (except ticket sales) and having lost income from the likes of the Variety Centre and Vault Bar, which were an integral income stream at The Willows. You also missed the part about alienating fans by moving out of the heart of the city. Apart from Saints (who have a successful team and a lot larger fan base) I can't think of any other SL club whose ground is in a more fan-unfriendly spot. I forgot to mention the continual excuses from away fans saying they can't get to the AJ Bell as it's situated somewhere just outside the Arctic Circle (and subsequent further loss in income)

Cas & Wakey may still be in dilapidated grounds but at least they're taking in a decent amount of revenue and actually own their grounds. We were bullied into moving with threats of expulsion yet 8 years after we played our final game at The Willows Cas & Wakey are still part of the SL set-up.

Don't get me wrong, considering they're from the "dark side" I actually have a lot of time for both clubs, there just appears to be a set of double standards in relation to how the whole stadium shenanigans have been handled.

Salford weren’t bullied into selling their stadium to pay off debts. That’s entirely on them and no-one else.
I have sympathy with the current owners predicament as with Wakefield and Cas. But Salford lost the right to choose their own destiny when they decided to distort the league and consistently spend more money than they brought in. Well they bet that right anyway, and it didn’t pay off.
The same is true with Cas and Wakefield who have both spent miniscule amounts of money on their stadiums over the last 60+ years and again distorted the league by spending more on players than they could actually afford.

They are not the only clubs of course, plenty of clubs did and Cas, Wakefield and Salford have perhaps been amongst the “unlucky” ones. But it was still within their power to maintain their stadiums and they didn’t.

That is not the fault of the current owners and so the sport should do what it can to help get better, sustainable, profitable facilities for the clubs but let’s not forget why the clubs are in this position in the first place, and it’s got sod all to do with the RFL or a local council or anyone else.

Re: New stadium dream all but over : Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:50 am  

As a Salford fan I'm just gutted cas Nd wakey got to keep their grounds and we had to move. No feelings of malice just disappointment on my behalf that we got shafted