Re: Out 2021 | Stevie Ward - Retirement : Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:37 pm  

One thing I think the sport could get rid of immediately is the practice of smashing kickers to the ground a split second after they have kicked the ball. It looks awful and adds nothing to the game. I'm not much of a fan of sticking up a high kick and then crunching a full back when practically defenceless either.

Re: Out 2021 | Stevie Ward - Retirement : Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:41 pm  

ArthurClues wrote:

One thing I think the sport could get rid of immediately is the practice of smashing kickers to the ground a split second after they have kicked the ball. It looks awful and adds nothing to the game. I'm not much of a fan of sticking up a high kick and then crunching a full back when practically defenceless either.

i don't like that either but if you outlaw that then you are allowing the kicker a free run to dummy and go through, with the defender standing off in the knowledge he basically can't commit due to the fact if he touches the kicker after the ball has gone then is he in deep water. it's a very difficult one to implement because the vast majority of them are only fractions from being good hits and always look ten times worse on super slow motion.

Re: Out 2021 | Stevie Ward - Retirement : Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:11 pm  

Yeah, I know. Ultimately I just like to see the creative players given more freedom and not fall victim to the McLorums of the game. I'd much rather watch Saints than Catalans. Totally get and respect your point though.

Re: Out 2021 | Stevie Ward - Retirement : Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:01 am  

Biff Tannen wrote:

i don't like that either but if you outlaw that then you are allowing the kicker a free run to dummy and go through, with the defender standing off in the knowledge he basically can't commit due to the fact if he touches the kicker after the ball has gone then is he in deep water. it's a very difficult one to implement because the vast majority of them are only fractions from being good hits and always look ten times worse on super slow motion.

We coach players to slow down before the tackle, get their feet and head in the right place and make sure they don't get stepped. If you're in control then you can pull out of the tackle very late if needed.
A lot of problems like late hits on kickers are caused by bad technique in the first place.

Re: Out 2021 | Stevie Ward - Retirement : Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:08 am  

ArthurClues wrote:

I'm not much of a fan of sticking up a high kick and then crunching a full back when practically defenceless either.

Having played wing and full back I can tell you it's not much fun. When you know you are going to get smashed you feel very lonely. Luckily I was a lightweight so I sort of bent in the impact like rubber, bit like punching a feather.

Re: Out 2021 | Stevie Ward - Retirement : Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:35 am  

DHM wrote:

We coach players to slow down before the tackle, get their feet and head in the right place and make sure they don't get stepped. If you're in control then you can pull out of the tackle very late if needed.
A lot of problems like late hits on kickers are caused by bad technique in the first place.

Agreed, the players who are allegedly chasing down the kicker, are actually intimidating him (legal) by the knowledge of them simply running into him after the kick has gone (illegal).

Re: Out 2021 | Stevie Ward - Retirement : Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:30 pm  

DHM wrote:

I've watched the game (as in physically gone to matches) since 1980. I remember the odd amusing punch up but I remember ball handling, pace, skill far more. My favourite players were fast and skillful -hence my username. Yes they were tough as well, everyone who plays RL is tough, it's a huge part of the game.

People don't know all the risks when they start playing, especially around TBI. That's patently obvious. I agree, players will tend to ignore the obvious risks, young people do. If someone had told me I would break my knee playing rugby and that I would spend 2 years practically on crutches and suffer pain with every step for the next 25 years (continuing and getting worse until I die) I would of course have carried on playing. And you can't make rugby "safe" and I wouldn't want to - it wouldn't be rugby. But it's also obvious that other contact sports are facing legal actions around brain injury caused by head impacts and it's a fact that there are far too many concussions in RL caused by head high tackles and unless that is dealt with by the people who run the game the sport may find itself in serious trouble.

Funny one this - because I think we both agree on the fundamental points - the game should protect players from foul play, particularly that involving the head or neck.... we are far too soft on deliberate and repeated attacks to the head/neck. A player like McIlorum should be penalised out of the game - with his rap sheet, any head contact, whether deliberate or reckless should result in a minimum of 150% of his previous sanction. So if he got 4 games last time, a minimum of 6 for his next offence, and then 9 for his next, 15 the next, 23 the next and so on - that would guarantee the repeat offenders fix their problem or they’ll be worthless to any club.

What I don’t think we should do is make the game powderpuff like removing shoulder charge entirely, stopping a bit of fisticuffs every now and then (O accept there is some risk here, but rarely have I ever seen a rugby fight end with any real damage) other than a shiner or cut.

Also, in terms of claims, the only way I could ever agree with a player making a claim is if the club forced the player to break head injury protocols, or were implementing training or match day techniques that they knew were dangerous. With the whole concussion stuff being very new, I don’t believe there will have been instances of this. To punish the sport for something they didn’t know about isn’t right - particularly when players enter contact sport knowing their is an inherent risk.

Re: Out 2021 | Stevie Ward - Retirement : Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:46 am  

Superted wrote:

Funny one this - because I think we both agree on the fundamental points - .

I think so too.

On the head injury stuff and law suits, it's more likely the governing bodies will be the target of major actions, unless as you rightly say an individual club has breeched safety protocols. The evidence on TBI and concussion has been available for some time and if the governing bodies have been presented with medical opinion and failed to act they could be seen as negligent. This is the case with Steve Thompson and others, they are suing the governing bodies and are gathering players for a class action suit. Something like that could potentially bankrupt RL.

Just on shoulder charges, I don't agree with the RU interpretation of the "armless tackle", that's stupid, but I gave up on shoulder charges when I saw the picture Luke Burgess posted showing his jaw split in half down the middle after that big dopey Cas **** hit him in the face with a "shoulder charge".

Re: Out 2021 | Stevie Ward - Retirement : Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:02 pm  

If you're going to ban contact with the head though it has to work both ways, any handoff by an attacking player /raised elbow that makes contact with the head should also be punished.

Re: Out 2021 | Stevie Ward - Retirement : Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:47 pm  

finglas wrote:

If you're going to ban contact with the head though it has to work both ways, any handoff by an attacking player /raised elbow that makes contact with the head should also be punished.

And this is the dangerous route it goes down when you start altering the fabric of the game - it starts getting silly. Absolutely clamp down on the illegal contact with the head - make it so that players daren’t swing their arm into a tackle (as they can’t control where it ends up if the player steps/slips etc), make it so they daren’t go for a blindside shoulder charge that could go wrong, coz if they get it wrong and collect the head, they’re out of the game for a LONG time. Make it so that they don’t get paid whilst banned, that’ll soon sort it. But don’t mickey about with the fabric of the game to make it ‘safer’ - that will just ruin the sport IMO (and already is doing).

Look at boxing - boxing simply can’t survive if the doctors and solicitors have their way, infact I don’t think any contact sport can, because if you remove the head injuries, the solicitors will then go for arthritis.... it won’t end.... we have to be. If and strong enough to say ‘we know our sport comes with risk, if you want to play it, never mind earn a living from it, you do so knowing the risks’ and take our chances legally. Contracts should be worded to protect the sport on this front.

I know HSE laws are designed to protect workers, but for mine, contact sport has to have different definitions, sport ultimately is a hobby, and people choose to do it knowing the risks. If I decide to climb a tree in the park, and fall out and hurt myself, I shouldn’t be allowed to sue the park for having climbable trees and no signs saying ‘don’t climb the trees’, but I bet I could find a solicitor willing to take on the case based on that.