Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:56 am  

Hampshire was the one that came to mind in terms of underachievers. Didn't he get player of the series in an England/Aus school boys series? But aside from raw pace, he doesn't have much else to his game. Others that came to mind were Stefan Marsh, Tommy Coyle and Joe Mellor.

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:43 am  

Jack Burton wrote:

Hampshire was the one that came to mind in terms of underachievers. Didn't he get player of the series in an England/Aus school boys series? But aside from raw pace, he doesn't have much else to his game. Others that came to mind were Stefan Marsh, Tommy Coyle and Joe Mellor.

Leg injury put Mellor back, looked as good a prospect as Tomkins he still had some good games for Widnes

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:07 pm  

I think regards Mellor and Hampshire it is difficult if not impossible to bring 2 other players with similar roles in the team at the same time.

Mellor had Sam, Hampshire had Williams.

Very tough to bring those lads through and put them in the first team together, with the pressures and expectations of competing for trophies every year too.

Mellor had an injury at a really bad time which decided his fate and in truth Hampshire never really suited a team coached by Wane where Williams did.

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:41 pm  

jonh wrote:

I think regards Mellor and Hampshire it is difficult if not impossible to bring 2 other players with similar roles in the team at the same time.

Mellor had Sam, Hampshire had Williams.

Very tough to bring those lads through and put them in the first team together, with the pressures and expectations of competing for trophies every year too.

Mellor had an injury at a really bad time which decided his fate and in truth Hampshire never really suited a team coached by Wane where Williams did.

I believe that Maguire rated Mellor above ST

Hampshire looked a million dollars in the academy and in first team looked like he never wanted the ball or responsibility of having to try and dictate play. For me sums up post 2005 players with little or zero personality who are overwhelmed by coaches. I watch him and he never looks like a confident player. A great pity. Another player consumed by rhe fear of the coach and lack of personal confidence.

I genuinely pray for the player who will give a finger to the coach and play the game as he sees ir

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:53 am  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

I believe that Maguire rated Mellor above ST

Hampshire looked a million dollars in the academy and in first team looked like he never wanted the ball or responsibility of having to try and dictate play. For me sums up post 2005 players with little or zero personality who are overwhelmed by coaches. I watch him and he never looks like a confident player. A great pity. Another player consumed by rhe fear of the coach and lack of personal confidence.

I genuinely pray for the player who will give a finger to the coach and play the game as he sees ir

Wane dismantled Rocky.

He went from one of the most natural halves you could see to a player who was told to run set patterns and plays almost to a text book accuracy.

That’s not a criticism of Wane as it worked for him however the natural talent of Rocky was never going to fly at Wigan and it was probably a negative move for him to join Wigan.

It would be very very brave for a kid to rebel against a system put in place by a coach who has such loyalty from his team.

The Leeds comeback last week saw Gayle rebel a little and take the game into his own hands, the Bradford comeback by Trent Barrett was similar, he just ignored orders and did his thing that night.

Expecting a 17/18 year old kid to do the same I think is unrealistic.

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:38 am  

He was shafted by Wigan

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:52 am  

jonh wrote:

Wane dismantled Rocky.

He went from one of the most natural halves you could see to a player who was told to run set patterns and plays almost to a text book accuracy.

That’s not a criticism of Wane as it worked for him however the natural talent of Rocky was never going to fly at Wigan and it was probably a negative move for him to join Wigan.

It would be very very brave for a kid to rebel against a system put in place by a coach who has such loyalty from his team.

The Leeds comeback last week saw Gayle rebel a little and take the game into his own hands, the Bradford comeback by Trent Barrett was similar, he just ignored orders and did his thing that night.

Expecting a 17/18 year old kid to do the same I think is unrealistic.

Blaming Waney is not fair, what about all the other players who have come through? They have had no problems with it. Since leaving Wigan he has had at least 3 different coaches and has done as ok as he did at Wigan. Lets not forget he was leaving Wakey last year as he was demanding more money and finished up with zero offers and stayed on presumably a lesser deal? Also there is some reason why none of the coaches have played him at 6 as a first choice when he was head and shoulders the best 6 at academy level as i watched most if not all the games around that time.sometimes players just don't kick on and sometimes they are poorly advised.

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:31 am  

JonnyBroad wrote:

Blaming Waney is not fair, what about all the other players who have come through? They have had no problems with it. Since leaving Wigan he has had at least 3 different coaches and has done as ok as he did at Wigan. Lets not forget he was leaving Wakey last year as he was demanding more money and finished up with zero offers and stayed on presumably a lesser deal? Also there is some reason why none of the coaches have played him at 6 as a first choice when he was head and shoulders the best 6 at academy level as i watched most if not all the games around that time.sometimes players just don't kick on and sometimes they are poorly advised.

I’m not blaming Wane.

What I am saying it was the wrong move for Rocky to go to Wigan.

He didn’t fit the philosophy adopted by the head coach.

He was a much more natural off the cuff player.

He was a round peg trying to be squeezed into a square hole at a crucial time for his development and it didn’t work and set him back. I’ve no doubt about that.

Wanes method worked for others without doubt so you can’t criticise it but sadly on this case particularly Rocky was a casualty of that.

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:46 pm  

The Coyle brothers surely must be in the underachievers category?