Re: Exiles International On the Cards for 2021 : Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:14 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Not sure but in a World Cup year England need to play a game with all its best players available and against the very best exiles side that can be picked.

I agree.

I agree with jonh too and said similar on the VT. Be great to play an Exiles side or best of the rest.

I'd still prefer Lancs v Yorks though as a trial foe the England side.

Re: Exiles International On the Cards for 2021 : Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:24 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

I agree.

I agree with jonh too and said similar on the VT. Be great to play an Exiles side or best of the rest.

I'd still prefer Lancs v Yorks though as a trial foe the England side.

I think the time would be a good one to bring back the Roses clash. I floated the idea when covid first hit and the season was suspended that once fans were allowed back in stadiums in decent numbers we should look to use it as an opportunity to bring that game back. I’d bill it as a game to help the sport financially and also to celebrate the sport. Add in the fact the players would be fighting for England spots and the timing felt ideal to me. The fixture can work but not without patience and that’s what we’ve never had when it came to the Roses clashes.

Re: Exiles International On the Cards for 2021 : Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:35 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I think the time would be a good one to bring back the Roses clash. I floated the idea when covid first hit and the season was suspended that once fans were allowed back in stadiums in decent numbers we should look to use it as an opportunity to bring that game back. I’d bill it as a game to help the sport financially and also to celebrate the sport. Add in the fact the players would be fighting for England spots and the timing felt ideal to me. The fixture can work but not without patience and that’s what we’ve never had when it came to the Roses clashes.

I went to them but was a bit young to follow the politics behind it. Why was it axed, crowds? Were the best players actually made available for it? I'd enjoy watching it but not sure it would help the England side that much. 1/3 of the team will be on the other side of the world, 1/3 for Lancs and 1/3 for Yorks, so they're not gelling as an England team.

I think it works better in Aus because they have the depth to put out two brilliant sides that recreate test match standards. Lancashire v Yorkshire would be more like a good SL game than a test match IMO because our clubs are more reliant on overseas players, especially in key positions. Having said that, I'd be more excited about watching it than an Exiles game, at least it means something to both teams.

Re: Exiles International On the Cards for 2021 : Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:26 am  

Grimmy wrote:

I went to them but was a bit young to follow the politics behind it. Why was it axed, crowds? Were the best players actually made available for it? I'd enjoy watching it but not sure it would help the England side that much. 1/3 of the team will be on the other side of the world, 1/3 for Lancs and 1/3 for Yorks, so they're not gelling as an England team.

I think it works better in Aus because they have the depth to put out two brilliant sides that recreate test match standards. Lancashire v Yorkshire would be more like a good SL game than a test match IMO because our clubs are more reliant on overseas players, especially in key positions. Having said that, I'd be more excited about watching it than an Exiles game, at least it means something to both teams.

In those days we last played it there was only Morley over in Oz I think, so the best players all played in it. It just seemed like we gave it a coupe of years, it wasn’t at the level of state of origin, both in quality and attendances, so we said ‘it’s not worth it’. There’s a natural and historical rivalry in Lancashire vs Yorkshire to build from but even with that, it’ll take time to build up a rivalry in a Rugby League Roses game. The Origin series was a nothing event in its early days Down Under but luckily enough for them they didn’t knock it on the head.

There are a few players over in Oz, certainly more than in those old days but not enough to say it couldn’t work IMO. The players here should see it as an extra game or three to show they’re worth an England place over Hodgson, Williams, Sutton etc.

Re: Exiles International On the Cards for 2021 : Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:28 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

In those days we last played it there was only Morley over in Oz I think, so the best players all played in it. It just seemed like we gave it a coupe of years, it wasn’t at the level of state of origin, both in quality and attendances, so we said ‘it’s not worth it’. There’s a natural and historical rivalry in Lancashire vs Yorkshire to build from but even with that, it’ll take time to build up a rivalry in a Rugby League Roses game. The Origin series was a nothing event in its early days Down Under but luckily enough for them they didn’t knock it on the head.

There are a few players over in Oz, certainly more than in those old days but not enough to say it couldn’t work.

What I meant was did some of the UK based players miraculously get minor injuries or require planned surgery that week? That seemed to creep in with the Exiles games in its last year.

SoO is like a test match because of the strength in depth they have there. It's easy to see how it is a step up from a league game in terms of intensity, which would prepare players for internationals, and show selectors how they perform in an even more challenging game than they get in the NRL. Do you think War of the Roses could do the same job? When I pick teams in my head, I struggle to make them much stronger than the best club teams as it stands, so not sure what it's doing for players or selectors that a club game doesn't. From a fans perspective I'm a lot more interested in this than Exiles or a game against France or Wales though, it's a genuine rivalry between two evenly matched sides with bragging rights at stake.

Re: Exiles International On the Cards for 2021 : Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:54 am  

Grimmy wrote:

What I meant was did some of the UK based players miraculously get minor injuries or require planned surgery that week? That seemed to creep in with the Exiles games in its last year.

SoO is like a test match because of the strength in depth they have there. It's easy to see how it is a step up from a league game in terms of intensity, which would prepare players for internationals, and show selectors how they perform in a more challenging game than they get in the NRL. Do you think War of the Roses could do the same job? When I pick teams in my head, I struggle to make them much stronger than the best club teams as it stands.

I seem to recall the teams being very strong but I can’t remember any great detail. I can recall guys like Fielden, Peacock, Newton, Farrell, Long etc turning out though, so it can’t have been too bad.

You’re right about Origin nowadays but the point I’m making is that it wasn’t always like that and everyone has to start somewhere. League has boomed over there since those days but has Origin helped that happen? Tough to say what comes first. Is Origin so strong because the game has boomed or is the game so strong because Origin has helped its profile and played its part in the boom. If we’re saying we want to start back up with a Roses game and expect that it will instantly be a game that is played at a huge intensity and will be like an extra test match, than we’re dreaming and we may as well not bother. If we’re prepared to give it 5, 10, 15 years as Origin needed then it can work IMO. In the long term it could prove to be very useful for England but granted, in the short term England needs games as a full side against quality opposition.

Re: Exiles International On the Cards for 2021 : Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:35 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

I seem to recall the teams being very strong but I can’t remember any great detail. I can recall guys like Fielden, Peacock, Newton, Farrell, Long etc turning out though, so it can’t have been too bad.

You’re right about Origin nowadays but the point I’m making is that it wasn’t always like that and everyone has to start somewhere. League has boomed over there since those days but has Origin helped that happen? Tough to say what comes first. Is Origin so strong because the game has boomed or is the game so strong because Origin has helped its profile and played its part in the boom. If we’re saying we want to start back up with a Roses game and expect that it will instantly be a game that is played at a huge intensity and will be like an extra test match, than we’re dreaming and we may as well not bother. If we’re prepared to give it 5, 10, 15 years as Origin needed then it can work IMO. In the long term it could prove to be very useful for England but granted, in the short term England needs games as a full side against quality opposition.

I hope you're right! It's the halves that make the Lancashire and Yorkshire sides no better than club teams for me. We have 5 out of a possible 14 English starting halfbacks between the top 7 clubs this year, including Lee Gaskell who will get nowhere near an international game. If the halves don't fall evenly between Lancashire and Yorkshire, or they get an injury or two, then we're quickly into the realms of picking guys out of their regular position, or those who are reserve at club level. Having said that, maybe that's a good thing to give them opportunities they don't get at club level. I'd be excited to see Harry Smith starting in the halves for Lancashire, even if it wouldn't exactly be a great indicator of the strength of the team.