[Mild Rover]

Re: Wizened old socialists : Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:43 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

What changes most people is when they have a family - and when that happens altruism fades until they have left the nest. Your numbers back up my theory as they have got older their love of Labour diminishes.

The reason I lean left by UK standards is more more self interest than altruism.

I want to live in a society in which others are well educated, well cared for and incentivised to contribute because that is better for me personally. And to be fair that isn’t left-ist at all - a well-regulated capitalist system can deliver that. I largely just want to remove the barriers to it working efficiently for more people by seeing entrenched inequalities and distortions continually challenged.

Re: Wizened old socialists : Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:17 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

The reason I lean left by UK standards is more more self interest than altruism.

I want to live in a society in which others are well educated, well cared for and incentivised to contribute because that is better for me personally. And to be fair that isn’t left-ist at all - a well-regulated capitalist system can deliver that. I largely just want to remove the barriers to it working efficiently for more people by seeing entrenched inequalities and distortions continually challenged.

I lean right for exactly the same reasons - your view is only the state can deliver my view is the richer the state the more it can deliver. If we encourage wealth generation this will increase everyone's standard of living. The idea that we can all only have what the lowest has to stop inequalities doesn't work for me - this only leads to a certain outcome - backwards and downwards. We see it in RL the salary cap is set for the lowest what has happened - lowering standards.

Re: Wizened old socialists : Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:24 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

Not at all. The figures suggest that the largest chunk of people who were young in the late 70s voted Tory through the 80s, and still vote that way now they are old. The post war generation who were fans of Atlee and maybe grew up in the depression on the other hand were permanently more left wing.

Past performance isn't a reliable guide to the future but it is very hard to imagine the Conservative party as it stands making massive inroads with younger voters as they age. That will particularly be the case if they continue to present themselves as a British version of the American Republican party.

Are you completely stupid - if 43% of 18-24 voted Labour over Tory but only 23% did the same as they aged doesn't that say something to you about as voters get past the young and idealistic stage they move away from Labour?

The Democrats wont win next time - the US has never gone for real left policies and Biden is really left leaning. Donald would have walked the last election had it not been for Covid

Re: Wizened old socialists : Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:47 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

Are you completely stupid - if 43% of 18-24 voted Labour over Tory but only 23% did the same as they aged doesn't that say something to you about as voters get past the young and idealistic stage they move away from Labour?

The Democrats wont win next time - the US has never gone for real left policies and Biden is really left leaning. Donald would have walked the last election had it not been for Covid

It appears you have flown off the handle after misunderstanding the figures.
So apologies if they are too complex for you to understand.

I'll try again.
Most younger people in 1979 voted Conservative. Those same people, now older, still vote Conservative. There wasn't some great magical flip as they aged.

In contrast younger people in 2019 voted overwhelmingly Labour. What will they do for the next 40 years is the question.

As for the US, the Republican party has significant structural advantages but let's remember they have got the most votes only once in a presidential election in the past three decades. They are now definitively the party of the minority in that country, propped up only by the electoral college and the quirks of the Senate.
When Texas flips Blue in about a decade, they will be sunk for a generation.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Wizened old socialists : Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:58 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

your view is only the state can deliver.

It’s not, you know.

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

If we encourage wealth generation this will increase everyone's standard of living.

I agree. I’m not sure anybody is against wealth generation. I want to extend that opportunity to as many people as possible so that, for example, we don’t have to rely on hopeless Old Etonians quite as much and that other people have a bigger window of opportunity.

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

The idea that we can all only have what the lowest has to stop inequalities doesn't work for me - this only leads to a certain outcome - backwards and downwards. We see it in RL the salary cap is set for the lowest what has happened - lowering standards.

I don’t want everybody to be homeless or hungry or discriminated against - I’d like to see the opposite in fact! I could even get behind Johnson’s levelling up rhetoric, if it wasn’t the empty blustering of a soulless, lying Tory twunt.

Other sports have thrived with salary caps in place. The NRL being an obvious comparator. English RL is more a victim of inequalities, imo - competitive imbalance and the relative poverty of the region in which it is most popular.