NCL Players? : Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:13 pm  

Under the current system, SL clubs are forced to make decisions on players at 19 years old. After that they either need to be fringe first teamers or they are shown the door, either to go part time in Championship/League 1, or else back to amateur level, or quit the game altogether in many cases. However, when I look at the NCL, I think there have been some late bloomers that the professional game has really missed out on, particularly in the forwards where they fill out more in their 20s and become more grizzled. Is the club missing a trick not putting on trials for NCL players to potentially gain a professional contract? I know they do this in the NFL, for example.

Re: NCL Players? : Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:18 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Under the current system, SL clubs are forced to make decisions on players at 19 years old. After that they either need to be fringe first teamers or they are shown the door, either to go part time in Championship/League 1, or else back to amateur level, or quit the game altogether in many cases. However, when I look at the NCL, I think there have been some late bloomers that the professional game has really missed out on, particularly in the forwards where they fill out more in their 20s and become more grizzled. Is the club missing a trick not putting on trials for NCL players to potentially gain a professional contract? I know they do this in the NFL, for example.

I could be wrong but do you mean NRL?

Re: NCL Players? : Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:05 pm  

Yorkshire Warrior wrote:

I could be wrong but do you mean NRL?

No I mean NFL, American football. They give trials to free agents every year. I don't know whether the NRL do anything similar, probably not but I think there might be more of a link between the amateur and professional levels over there.

Re: NCL Players? : Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:11 pm  

I watch a lot of both junior and open age grass roots rugby.

It’s frightening how many kids who don’t get scholarships tend to lose focus on the game and either quit or performances drop off.

I actually don’t blame the clubs for this as it’s often the parental pressure that breaks them. Clubs generally have ETP pathways to keep kids in their systems who don’t initially make the cut.

I think the NCL and probably more fruitful the Summer Conference leagues could do with a bit more attention.

I’ve 3 lads playing at my local community club in Division 5 who have been in or around the pro system as kids but didn’t quite make it. I don’t believe they are SL standard players but they would hold their own in the Championship no doubt.

The Summer Conference attracts a lot of players who may have bypassed the development pathways mainly from Union as there is no clash with their season. Some very raw lads running around in that division (or there was I’ve not seen it lately) who had all the attributes to be good league players with a bit of investment from pro clubs.

Re: NCL Players? : Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:43 pm  

jonh wrote:

I watch a lot of both junior and open age grass roots rugby.

It’s frightening how many kids who don’t get scholarships tend to lose focus on the game and either quit or performances drop off.

I actually don’t blame the clubs for this as it’s often the parental pressure that breaks them. Clubs generally have ETP pathways to keep kids in their systems who don’t initially make the cut.

I think the NCL and probably more fruitful the Summer Conference leagues could do with a bit more attention.

I’ve 3 lads playing at my local community club in Division 5 who have been in or around the pro system as kids but didn’t quite make it. I don’t believe they are SL standard players but they would hold their own in the Championship no doubt.

The Summer Conference attracts a lot of players who may have bypassed the development pathways mainly from Union as there is no clash with their season. Some very raw lads running around in that division (or there was I’ve not seen it lately) who had all the attributes to be good league players with a bit of investment from pro clubs.

I'm embarrassed to ask this John, but what is the Summer Conference? I thought I knew every level of the game!

Re: NCL Players? : Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:45 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

I'm embarrassed to ask this John, but what is the Summer Conference? I thought I knew every level of the game!

It is traditionally played out of the heartlands in an union areas.

I played Bedford RFU in the late 90’s just after I left school and on the Summer there was a team I played league for in the town.

Not too long ago there was an opportunity to play it in the North when the open age season remained mainly in winter, not sure it’s still a thing now.

There is however the SCL which is split into regions. Mainly big Union areas who have a handful of league lads supported by local off season Union lads.

Standard isn’t necessarily great but it gives a taste to the lads who may be better suited to league but never had the opportunity to play.

Devon Sharks, Hemel Stags, Bedford Tigers and a good few others all playing in the Union offseason.

Tony Clubb, LMS at Saints Michael Daryl Griffin, Rob Worrency abd a good few others are Union converts from that pathway not sure about KPP.

Re: NCL Players? : Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:00 pm  

The NCL isn’t the be all and end all.

There’s plenty of lads playing North West Prem (and the other areas equivalent) perfectly capable of stepping up to SL academy/Championship level with a view to SL or certainly were once upon a time. The trick is how do you keep an 17/18/19yr old lad interested? Other than training for an hour during the week and a game on Saturday he’s no commitments. He’ll go out on the lash with the lads, go on holidays, get a better paid job than he’d ever earn in RL. I’m speaking from personal experience here.

Only those who are utterly 100% focused on getting back into the pro ranks stand a chance, and even then it’s not a given. That’s a special mindset which not everyone, myself well included, possesses at that age.

To put it simply I don’t think this is an issue that will ever be solved.

Re: NCL Players? : Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:49 am  

jonh wrote:

It is traditionally played out of the heartlands in an union areas.

I played Bedford RFU in the late 90’s just after I left school and on the Summer there was a team I played league for in the town.

Not too long ago there was an opportunity to play it in the North when the open age season remained mainly in winter, not sure it’s still a thing now.

There is however the SCL which is split into regions. Mainly big Union areas who have a handful of league lads supported by local off season Union lads.

Standard isn’t necessarily great but it gives a taste to the lads who may be better suited to league but never had the opportunity to play.

Devon Sharks, Hemel Stags, Bedford Tigers and a good few others all playing in the Union offseason.

Tony Clubb, LMS at Saints Michael Daryl Griffin, Rob Worrency abd a good few others are Union converts from that pathway not sure about KPP.

its was an excellent standard, the best no paid rugby, its was country wide, there was a team in manchester and for me should have been pushed more as it was very good, its now been merged with the BARLA leagues, I preferred it before as it was a standard higher than them for me

Re: NCL Players? : Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:01 am  

100% Warrior wrote:

The NCL isn’t the be all and end all.

There’s plenty of lads playing North West Prem (and the other areas equivalent) perfectly capable of stepping up to SL academy/Championship level with a view to SL or certainly were once upon a time. The trick is how do you keep an 17/18/19yr old lad interested? Other than training for an hour during the week and a game on Saturday he’s no commitments. He’ll go out on the lash with the lads, go on holidays, get a better paid job than he’d ever earn in RL. I’m speaking from personal experience here.

Only those who are utterly 100% focused on getting back into the pro ranks stand a chance, and even then it’s not a given. That’s a special mindset which not everyone, myself well included, possesses at that age.

To put it simply I don’t think this is an issue that will ever be solved.

Agreed. Money is probably one of the main reasons.

We almost lost Sam Tomkins to RL because he was forced onto a pay-per-play contract and on I think £5k a year when he was 17/18. Even on an apprenticeship you get £8-10k and money is more important than ever to kids these days who need a phone, clothes, going out, a car etc. because all of their mates have that.

Re: NCL Players? : Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:16 am  

Wigg'n wrote:

Agreed. Money is probably one of the main reasons.

We almost lost Sam Tomkins to RL because he was forced onto a pay-per-play contract and on I think £5k a year when he was 17/18. Even on an apprenticeship you get £8-10k and money is more important than ever to kids these days who need a phone, clothes, going out, a car etc. because all of their mates have that.

I remember that time. He wasn’t on any deal and went back to Wigan St Pats where I’d just gone to play having left my club. He played in a 0-0 draw up at Golborne Parkside and went for a drop goal but it was that muddy the ball stuck in the mud and the ref gave a KO!

But Sam had that mentality that he wasn’t going to give up. He was a special player even then but I don’t think you’d have said he would be the player he has been. His sheer drive, competitiveness and determination got him through. I think he’d have gone to Wigan training for free regardless of what job/money was thrown at him. His top priority was making it as a pro RL player and that is an extremely rare quality to have.