Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 11, 2017 4:00 pm  

As a younger member of society can anyone explain to me why the Labour party and the unions are so closely linked? I thought that a trade union would be separate from any specific political party, instead focusing on holding whatever government is in power to account on the issue of worker's rights.

Having spent a bit of time in the Netherlands I've seen how well a nationalised rail service can operate but the unions in this country appear, for lack of a better word, quite militant and I don't think the current Labour leaders would be willing to stand against the unions if they were to make any outrageous demands.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 11, 2017 4:29 pm  

manifestos...whats the point?

the parties just tell us what we want to hear and they end up not getting implemented anyway!

they should be made to comply with their manifesto by law if elected.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 11, 2017 5:15 pm  

WF Rhino wrote:

As a younger member of society can anyone explain to me why the Labour party and the unions are so closely linked? I thought that a trade union would be separate from any specific political party, instead focusing on holding whatever government is in power to account on the issue of worker's rights.

Having spent a bit of time in the Netherlands I've seen how well a nationalised rail service can operate but the unions in this country appear, for lack of a better word, quite militant and I don't think the current Labour leaders would be willing to stand against the unions if they were to make any outrageous demands.

In a nutshell - back in the early - mid 1800's Britain had undergone the industrial revolution and most people moved from agricultural work to working in Mills, mines, factories etc. They were paid very little (as in barely enough to live on) worked 12 - 16 hour days, in filthy condition, were often injured or killed by the machinery or environment they worked in and lived in disgusting slums. Diseases were common and infant mortality rates were through the roof. Your kids also worked in these industries to make ends meet.

Then in the late 1800's workers unions were legalised and the trade union movement started in order to try and address some of these issues that workers were facing. This resulted in the formation of the Labour Representation Commitee which became the basis of todays Labour party.

Since then, trade unions collect membership fees from their members and pass a decent proportion on to the Labour Party who theoretically stand up for workers rights and welfare in parliament.

As for your point about them being militant, well to be fair, yes they have been very militant in the past, which ultimately led to them being hammered by Thatcher and their powers reduced. These days, owners are always looking to streamline their costs and obviously, the biggest expense of most businesses is wages. The trade unions have to be quite agressive in the face of aggressive cuts from employers, quite a few of whom try to not recognise the authority of unions to negotiate on behalf of their staff members.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 11, 2017 5:30 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Happy with most of what's in the manifesto. A lot of it makes sense like re-nationalising the railways.

They'll never get the chance to put it into practice which is a shame.

Also a shame that some people have such a jaundiced view of unions. I've been in and out of a few in my career. They're not all run by Trotskyite loonies. For instance I was in Prospect for a few years which was eminently reasonable. My rep was even a Conservative Party member (he was from Cornwall - not Scotland or Liverpool).

Just asking a question here.
IF the railways were nationalised, what do you think are the chances of having national strikes, something we haven't seen for many years.
Also, British Rail were awful, late running trains, lousy second rate carriages and even worse food.
Although there are problems with rail services not necessarily will nationalising them, solve anything.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 11, 2017 6:35 pm  

Network rail are still tidying up the mess from a network that has been under maintained!

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 11, 2017 7:10 pm  

People talk as if Labour's policies are from another planet when really they're common place throughout the world. It seems the only thing that constitutes a strong economy to the quasi Rand zombies running the country is misleading GDP growth, and 'low unemployment'. Things like, living standards, education, health, productivity, and wages are an after thought.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 11, 2017 7:44 pm  

According to the Governor of the bank of England, our strong and stable economy is going to be squeezed over the next 12 months.
Higher inflation plus interest rate increases are going to leave us all a little worse off and then the unknown effects of Brexit will come into play and hi didn't want to commit himself as to which way things would go.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 11, 2017 8:19 pm  

TrinityIHC wrote:

In a nutshell - back in the early - mid 1800's Britain had undergone the industrial revolution and most people moved from agricultural work to working in Mills, mines, factories etc. They were paid very little (as in barely enough to live on) worked 12 - 16 hour days, in filthy condition, were often injured or killed by the machinery or environment they worked in and lived in disgusting slums. Diseases were common and infant mortality rates were through the roof. Your kids also worked in these industries to make ends meet.

Then in the late 1800's workers unions were legalised and the trade union movement started in order to try and address some of these issues that workers were facing. This resulted in the formation of the Labour Representation Commitee which became the basis of todays Labour party.

Since then, trade unions collect membership fees from their members and pass a decent proportion on to the Labour Party who theoretically stand up for workers rights and welfare in parliament.

As for your point about them being militant, well to be fair, yes they have been very militant in the past, which ultimately led to them being hammered by Thatcher and their powers reduced. These days, owners are always looking to streamline their costs and obviously, the biggest expense of most businesses is wages. The trade unions have to be quite agressive in the face of aggressive cuts from employers, quite a few of whom try to not recognise the authority of unions to negotiate on behalf of their staff members.

Thanks for that, every article I found on Google were written on the assumption that I had a a fair bit of understanding on the topic so this has helped a lot. I recognise that the unions do play an important role in ensuring that the workers can band together to fight any business looking to exploit them but I do feel a little uncomfortable with them being so intrinsically linked to one party. It just seems so easy for them to become a political weapon. Is this what happened Pre-Thatcher? Are all the unions focused on workers in the public sector or are the unions that represent workers in the private sector as well?

I apologise for all the questions but they're not really a topic that gets discussed by younger people so I'm quite ignorant on them and as an undecided voter I want to know the ins and outs of all the major parties before the election.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 11, 2017 9:08 pm  

TrinityIHC wrote:

In a nutshell - back in the early - mid 1800's Britain had undergone the industrial revolution and most people moved from agricultural work to working in Mills, mines, factories etc. They were paid very little (as in barely enough to live on) worked 12 - 16 hour days, in filthy condition, were often injured

Hang on, how did you go from the early/mid 1800s to describing the life of a current Deliveroo rider in the same paragraph?!

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 12, 2017 1:59 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The Labour manifesto looks like it's been pulled from a time capsule, it's an utter joke.
Anyone would think they were trying to take control of the utilities so that the Unions could take a stronger grip over the country.
Who ever takes over from Corbyn, assuming that he will step down or, be ousted from being Leader, needs some new ideas.
Clamping down properly on tax evasion and tax avoidance would be a good start.

It's a crying shame that Team Teresa is going to have a huge majority but, nobody is even coming close to making her campaign difficult.

If this manifesto was being delivered by a clean-cut, slick-talking, confident leader you would be praising it, as would everyone else and it would be a huge landslide victory for Labour. This election is a joke and, like the last US election, is concrete proof that winning an election is nothing to do with politics whatsoever, it's solely about creating and manipulating a certain rhetoric about your opponent.