Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:49 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

...because thats what is at the source of all poverty isn't it, people who would have enough money if only they didn't spend it all on christmas presents.

Well, when people try to be responsible – saving for Christmas – they get shafted by the likes of Farepak, which took their money while knowing it would not be able to repay. Of course, it's still ultimately their fault for daring to want more than a satsuma and a walnut at Christmas.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:57 am  

Mintball wrote:

So doubtless you can now set down the cut-off pay rate at which someone should stop empathising with the wider workforce and daring to even think about a fairer society.

At the same time, you can also provide the evidence – which you have singularly failed to do previously – that society as a whole is not better off in social terms when the income gap is lower.*


* To clarify: that was lower – not non-existent.

There is no upper limit - as humans are natural instinct is to look after ourselves and I would suggest to 99.9% of people providing sufficiently for themselves is their primary consideration. Most of those who spout empathy - and I include you - do so from a position of comfort.

No one has provided any evidence that society is better of if the income gap is smaller - and again I include you. If it were the case capitalism would have vanished and been replaced by socialist/marxist/communist system. Sadly that has proved not to work. So where is our evidence that it does - and that doesn't include searching the internet for a rouge article that supports your view point.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:09 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

There is no upper limit - as humans are natural instinct is to look after ourselves and I would suggest to 99.9% of people providing sufficiently for themselves is their primary consideration. Most of those who spout empathy - and I include you - do so from a position of comfort...

So, you cannot answer the question?

You're the one stating that anyone who dares to empathise with others and even mention fairness should not do so once earning a certain amount of money.

This 'argument' has previously been shown (not by me) to be crass: to follow your logic, only a slave would oppose slavery, was an example that was given.

Yet you persist and, since you've repeatedly suggested this, you must have thought out what that rate would be.

Incidentally: I am quite comfortable now. It has not been the case for the bulk of my working life – as mentioned before, the copper jar was essential not that many years ago. No holidays, no trips out etc etc – and that was while working.

I'd be interested to know just why you'd expect anyone to suddenly only interested in themselves when their own lives improve. But then again, you can't even put a figure to your own pet theory that a concern for fairness should cease on reaching a certain pay level.

I equally doubt that you know the pay levels of anyone on here who you would assert should stop being concerned about fairness, thus rather rendering your comments insubstantial at best.

Sal Paradise wrote:

No one has provided any evidence that society is better of if the income gap is smaller - and again I include you...

I know that I have mentioned The Spirit Level more than once on here, so either you've missed it, forgotten it or decided to ignore it.

Feel free to refute the work that Wilkinson and Pickett did – using evidence – but stop trying to pretend that such evidence does not exist.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:41 am  

Capitalism as a system FAILS because people die of GREED.
That will now cause the right wingers no end of problems trying to work it out but it is a truth.
Have fun Sal, AJW, World of Red Boy etc.
Try and refute it.
Your replies, if any, will make for interesting reading.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:10 pm  

Lord Elpers wrote: Lord Elpers wrote: Do you still stand by this? It looks to me that the figure you quoted ie 32809 was for the end of 2011 and not 2010. The coalition came to power in the 2nd quarter of 2010. So was this a misreading of graphs error or a deliberate error to mislead? http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-per-capita-ppp Has 'Him' done a runner?

Lord Elpers wrote: Lord Elpers wrote: Do you still stand by this? It looks to me that the figure you quoted ie 32809 was for the end of 2011 and not 2010. The coalition came to power in the 2nd quarter of 2010. So was this a misreading of graphs error or a deliberate error to mislead? http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-per-capita-ppp Has 'Him' done a runner?

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:52 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

...because thats what is at the source of all poverty isn't it, people who would have enough money if only they didn't spend it all on christmas presents.

Wouldn't have thought there was much poverty in Horsforth Gerry. I'm sure your Christmas golfing socks were of the finest merino wool!
Perhaps you missed the part where she didn't actually have the money, but borrowed it, and is now complaining that her benefits payments will not cover the repayments?

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:20 pm  

The austerity looks like it is working. The UK economy is now predicted to overtake Germany as Europe's strongest by 2030 and predicted to have the second highest highest growth, after the USA, of any advanced economy.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:28 pm  

Leaguefan wrote:

Capitalism as a system FAILS because people die of GREED.
That will now cause the right wingers no end of problems trying to work it out but it is a truth.
Have fun Sal, AJW, World of Red Boy etc.
Try and refute it.
Your replies, if any, will make for interesting reading.

Traditionally, people die of stoppage of the breath......something common to all of us!

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:40 pm  

Dally wrote:

The austerity looks like it is working. The UK economy is now predicted to overtake Germany as Europe's strongest by 2030 and predicted to have the second highest highest growth, after the USA, of any advanced economy.

Do you share this optimistic prediction Dally?

Will the United Kingdom even exist in 2030? Will we live in an Islamic Republic? Will England just be a state within Euroland?

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:53 pm  

Lord Elpers wrote:

Has 'Him' done a runner?

Not at all, I hadn't actually noticed your post, apologies.

It certainly wasn't a deliberate error to mislead, the graphs on that site are, however, a little misleading themselves. For instance if you use the same data ie GDP per capita PPP but for 2010 to 2013 you will see it shows the higher figure I quoted as being for a period including 2010 and into 2011, but not to the end of 2011.
If I was incorrect, I apologise and withdraw the comment.

Incidentally, I notice the Andrew Mitchell thread hasn't been touched recently...