Re: MANDELA DEAD : Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:37 pm  

rover49 wrote:

I think you will find it is in chaos already.

A young black South African girl who worked in a clients office told me that the reason she and her family left was because of the violence, corruption and (still) the lack of prospects for a black kid from a poor background. One evil regime has been replaced by another, the difference was that the former regime was white and treat blacks appallingly, while the new is mainly blacks shafting their own.

And the greatest blame for that can be fairly laid at the feet of European colonialists.

We fought and bought/sold the whole continent and carved it up to suit ourselves, without a thought to tribal or clan boundaries. Once the European govenors buggered off home, leaving them with some form of our democracy and judicial systems, there's little wonder most of the continent has, over time spiralled into chaos

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:10 pm  

rover49 wrote:

I think you will find it is in chaos already.

A young black South African girl who worked in a clients office told me that the reason she and her family left was because of the violence, corruption and (still) the lack of prospects for a black kid from a poor background. One evil regime has been replaced by another, the difference was that the former regime was white and treat blacks appallingly, while the new is mainly blacks shafting their own.

I fear you ain't seen nothing yet. It has always been my fear that wjen Mr Mandela died things would spiral down. The fact he lived so long has helped but I am not so sure how things develop.

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:13 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

And the greatest blame for that can be fairly laid at the feet of European colonialists.

We fought and bought/sold the whole continent and carved it up to suit ourselves, without a thought to tribal or clan boundaries. Once the European govenors buggered off home, leaving them with some form of our democracy and judicial systems, there's little wonder most of the continent has, over time spiralled into chaos

I think the big issue, which you have expressed in a round about way, is that people were taken from an often stoneage culture into a "modern" one within a generation or two. That took Europe many centuries to achieve.

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:15 pm  

Looks like Godfrey Bloom has got Dally's login for the night.

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:39 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

And the greatest blame for that can be fairly laid at the feet of European colonialists.

This very statement shows you are nothing like Mandela. He didn't attribute or seek out blame.

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:00 pm  

A mate of mine works with the UN, South Sudan at the minute, DR Congo before that. He was hoping to be at the headquarters in New York by now. His general view is that South Africa is a basket case and on the precipice of a Zimbabwe type meltdown. That's assuming HIV/Aids doesn't kill everyone. In 1990 the life expectancy was 62, by 2007 that had dropped to 50.

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:34 pm  

BobbyD wrote:

A mate of mine works with the UN, South Sudan at the minute, DR Congo before that. He was hoping to be at the headquarters in New York by now. His general view is that South Africa is a basket case and on the precipice of a Zimbabwe type meltdown. That's assuming HIV/Aids doesn't kill everyone. In 1990 the life expectancy was 62, by 2007 that had dropped to 50.

Yes, that's what I fear. Zimbabwe used to be a pretty good place. Even when I visted 20 odd years ago the writing was on the wall though.

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:55 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

And the greatest blame for that can be fairly laid at the feet of European colonialists.

We fought and bought/sold the whole continent and carved it up to suit ourselves, without a thought to tribal or clan boundaries. Once the European govenors buggered off home, leaving them with some form of our democracy and judicial systems, there's little wonder most of the continent has, over time spiralled into chaos

I don't think this world would be as advanced (in terms of technology etc.) without expansionism/empires. I'm only speculating but I doubt that we would be able to comunicate over this medium this if history had gone along a different path.

Sorry for going OT.

Race must still be a big issue in South Africa because I can't see a reason why the ANC nutters keep getting into power.

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:16 pm  

I heard an interesting interview on the radio today, but didn't catch who it was, sounded like an elderly South African. He said Mandela was a great man. A fascinating man whose greatest achievement was not the changes he helped bring to South Africa, but the changes he made to himself. He said the young Mandela was reactionary, angry and often intolerant to opinions of others and a difficult and awkward man, particularly in his relationships with his own family. The personal journey he went on in prison sounds as fascinating a story as that of his political achievements. There were also a few questions raised about his political actions when in power, particularly about his ignorance of the severity of the problem posed by HIV/AIDS. Even relatively late in his life when in power he was still willing to learn, to let education and communication change his mind, even if he'd held a different view for a long time. One example mentioned was his economic policies. He apparently left prison still believing in an almost communist economic model, but changed his mind when discussing the dangers and pitfalls of it with China's leaders.

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:41 am  

I have distant family in SA.

The country is often portrayed as some sort of utopia for freedom and fairness.

As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, it used to be whites shafting blacks, now it is blacks shafting blacks. It could well go to rat-poop and end up like Zimbabwe. Which would be a shame.