Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:33 pm  

Wire Yed wrote:

Utterly ignorant (nope)

lol

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:52 pm  

Think what you like, i couldn't give a jot for most of the silly arguments of the brexit camp, i know the EU is anti democratic. The system stinks and i don't want to be part of that.
Besides if we do vote out it will see a ripple effect through Europe, all the empty threats will see this gigantic sham crumble.

I love free movement, i love quite a lot that Europe has done for us but when I'm not happy, there is nothing i can do about it...NOTHING.

We have 2 options, in or out, that's it, so if that is all i have then i vote out.
Ideally i wish there was an option 'complete reform and accountability IN' but it won't happen and so unfortunately i am out.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:18 pm  

Wire Yed wrote:

I love free movement, i love quite a lot that Europe has done for us but when I'm not happy, there is nothing i can do about it...NOTHING.

What exactly is it you're not happy about? I'm sure as hell not happy with virtually anything the current UK government is doing but there's nothing I can do about it, I live in a staunch Labour constituency meaning my vote is pretty much redundant in the grand scheme of things. Plus over half of this country's legislative officials (House of Lords) are entirely unelected and unaccountable and they are paid huge amounts of taxpayers money every day just for showing up. The idea that the EU is any more undemocratic than the British government is a total myth IMO.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:45 pm  

So because you think our system is crap (i agree btw) then it's ok to stay in an equally defunct system?

Come out of the EU, then we can work on our system, i agree that every vote should count...although if that was the case then UKIP and Conservative would be prominent in the government right now.
The house of lords is also a disgusting institution, and we should be looking to abolishing it outright.

I think Scotland after being given the vote to go independent, should be extended to Wales should they wish to be independent, i think Ireland should be given a vote as to go completely independent, stay in the UK or join Ireland.

I believe in small government btw, always have.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:50 pm  

Sorry you asked what I wasn't happy about, I'm not happy that if the political discourse changes in the future then i am powerless to change, we as a nation are powerless to change. I'm sorry but even an illusion of democracy is better than the certainty of a dictatorship.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:06 pm  

Wire Yed wrote:

Sorry you asked what I wasn't happy about, I'm not happy that if the political discourse changes in the future then i am powerless to change, we as a nation are powerless to change. I'm sorry but even an illusion of democracy is better than the certainty of a dictatorship.

But surely this referendum has shown that we are more than capable of leaving at any time? As a nation we are protected from 'ever closer union' and again, the EU is not our central government. It's a political union. There is not any type of realistic situation where some sort of centralized body would be able to impose themselves over the UK or any other European nation, people in France and Germany wouldn't take it any more than we would. There isn't some malevolent force at work here despite the narrative that the EU is some dark, shadowy empire trying to slyly establish world domination. They have some legislative power in that they set regulations for minimum standards of trading and to ensure fair competition within the single market. Some of these regulations and the method in which they are formulated needs to be reformed, for sure. But the only way we would ever be subject to any type of European dictatorship would be if someone formed an army, took over and invaded the country, and if that was the case then EU membership would be the least of our problems.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:16 pm  

Doom&Gloom Merchant wrote: As a group they're net contributors, I'm not sure how I could have said that any simpler. Think about it Dally. Joe Bloggs ( ) from Poland arrives in the UK at 20. He's cost the government £0 in education, he's fit, healthy and ready to work, his cost to the NHS minimal, he gets a job, pays rent and pays tax. Lower paid jobs or not, they put more into the system than they take out of it. http://www.economist.com/news/britain/2 ... er-done-us http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... itish-jobs https://fullfact.org/immigration/do-eu- ... y-receive/ Despite what your Bible the Daily Mail has indoctrinated you to think, these people are not the financial burden that elements of the media want us to think they are. Think about it. He gets married and has kids. They go to school, his wife has new-natal care, he receives tax credits, child benefit, etc, why is he really different to the 13.8 million families who receive more than they put in?

Doom&Gloom Merchant wrote: As a group they're net contributors, I'm not sure how I could have said that any simpler. Think about it Dally. Joe Bloggs ( ) from Poland arrives in the UK at 20. He's cost the government £0 in education, he's fit, healthy and ready to work, his cost to the NHS minimal, he gets a job, pays rent and pays tax. Lower paid jobs or not, they put more into the system than they take out of it. http://www.economist.com/news/britain/2 ... er-done-us http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... itish-jobs https://fullfact.org/immigration/do-eu- ... y-receive/ Despite what your Bible the Daily Mail has indoctrinated you to think, these people are not the financial burden that elements of the media want us to think they are. Think about it. He gets married and has kids. They go to school, his wife has new-natal care, he receives tax credits, child benefit, etc, why is he really different to the 13.8 million families who receive more than they put in?

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:17 pm  

crumpledshorts wrote:

Is a non-don someone who isn't in the maffia?

An Apple auto correct.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:15 pm  

Wire Yed wrote:

I love free movement, i love quite a lot that Europe has done for us but when I'm not happy, there is nothing i can do about it...NOTHING.

We have 2 options, in or out, that's it, so if that is all i have then i vote out.
Ideally i wish there was an option 'complete reform and accountability IN' but it won't happen and so unfortunately i am out.

My thoughts as well , shut it down and start again and yes let's get it right this time , but that isn't an option

Already murmurs that if we pull out France could quite easily be voting themselves in a few years

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:11 pm  

Why won't the England players be voting in the referendum?

Cos none of them know how to put a cross in the box