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Re: RIP Hugo Chavez : Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:31 pm  
Sal Paradise wrote:
Mintball wrote:
And a 16-year-old young woman was stabbed to death on a bus in Birmingham this morning – shall we extrapolate that women were better off before they had to go to school?


That is one in this country compared to 40-50 every day in South Africa, the occurrences of rape - something you quite rightly hold dear - are rising annually. I ask again is the average black South African in a better place now than they were?


Do only black women get raped?
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Re: RIP Hugo Chavez : Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:36 pm  
Sal Paradise wrote:
I would argue that society in this country has gone backwards in the last decade and quality of life has suffered. Are we as humans happier than we were ten years ago - would you say culturally this country is moving forward?

No, I wouldn't, culturally we are being more and more Americanised ... and not just Americanised but the dumb-end of Americanised.
But, as we were granted universal suffrage nearly a hundred years ago, I fail to see the correlation bwteen violent crime and democracy in the UK.
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Re: RIP Hugo Chavez : Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:37 pm  
Rock God X wrote:
That bad things still happen doesn't mean that black people were 'better off' being treated like animals by white people. That you would even suggest such a thing is mind-blowing.


Well there you go - always willing to poke a stick at the politically correct lefties on here.
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Re: RIP Hugo Chavez : Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:42 pm  
rover49 wrote:
SA was my first ever overseas place to visit in 1973, cannot remember much about it as I was 16 and only wanted to get pi$$ed or layed (or both !!). Going next year to Gansbai and south of Durban for a diving holiday, so am hoping to see something of the place and maybe at 56, remember more of it.


T'Other Half got back here in 1983 and wouldn't return until the end of apartheid. We went together then, in 1988 – my first real trip out of the country (I'm excluding four hours in Dieppe). We've been back together once since.

He still has family in Pietermaritzburg, so that was where we were based, although the first trip, we did quite a bit of travelling around.

It is very beautiful – but what I saw most of was also quite bonkers.

The Afrikaners are a right snotty lot in my experience – and stuck decades in the past. My faux pas on the first trip included buying a round when I considered it my shout and wearing football shirts. These are not things that respectable women do – in the case of the latter, that's the sport that the 'blecks' watch.

We had some really weird experiences – and I mean weird. On the second trip, the exchange rate meant that we could spend a week at a resort in the Drakensberg – which is an amazing area. It's a big, rather posh resort, and the majority of guests were Afrikaners, with a smattering of Europeans. The former will not talk to you – simple as.

The various Europeans chatted with each other, in a variety of pidgin tongues, and made that effort at informal pleasantries.

There were two bars. The cocktail one, which the Afrikaner guests used, we tried and then abandoned. Stilted, false, insanely quiet – the 'sports bar' was used by staff and almost entirely European guests and was a massively better place to be; sociable and with atmosphere.

After one trip, I read Tom Sharpe's first two novels – Riotous Assembly and Indecent Exposure. Sharpe had started writing shortly after being deported by the South African government of the day for sedition. Ex-Marines, he'd moved to SA in 1951 and was a teacher in Maritzburg. The books are a kind of vicious, angry revenge on the apartheid regime, which he came to be appalled by.

The extraordinary thing is that all the years in between don't stop you recognising Maritzburg itself – and I swear I actually met one of two of the characters, including one ex-school acquaintance of The Other Half's with whom I developed what was clearly an entirely mutual dislike.

I met him and some of his other old friends at a braai. They included the occasional religious fundamentalist, and – although none of them had ever supported apartheid, oh no – some of their comments suggested that, if they hadn't supported it, they'd certainly imbibed the core ideological point of superiority.

Mind, that braai was an experience in its own right. We were guests of honour, but I was expected to sit with the female relatives and children at one end, with no booze and in silence. I presume that they didn't talk because I was a stranger.

As I said, weird on so many levels.

Mind, I hate the f**king cockroaches!
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Re: RIP Hugo Chavez : Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:42 pm  
Rock God X wrote:
Do only black women get raped?


Given the blacks make up 80% of the population it doesn't take a huge leap of faith to suggest that the majority of those subjected to rape will be black women. Maybe you are going to pull a rabbit out of the hat to suggest otherwise.
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Re: RIP Hugo Chavez : Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:44 pm  
Sal Paradise wrote:
I would argue that society in this country has gone backwards in the last decade and quality of life has suffered. Are we as humans happier than we were ten years ago - would you say culturally this country is moving forward?


I'd say that this country has gone backwards in the last 30 years, as the income gap has widened, along with inequality; as job security has diminished and as the push and pressure for everyone to be überconsumers has grown.
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Re: RIP Hugo Chavez : Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:47 pm  
Sal Paradise wrote:
That is one in this country compared to 40-50 every day in South Africa, the occurrences of rape - something you quite rightly hold dear - are rising annually. I ask again is the average black South African in a better place now than they were?


Of course, under apartheid, that blonde broad might not have been shot to death by her crippled boyfriend.

Anything you fancy extrapolating from that?

While you're at it, perhaps levels of homophobia in, say, Jamaica, which result in rape and murder, would be removed if it was still ruled by the Empire that introduced the buggery laws?
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Re: RIP Hugo Chavez : Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:47 pm  
El Barbudo wrote:
No, I wouldn't, culturally we are being more and more Americanised ... and not just Americanised but the dumb-end of Americanised.
But, as we were granted universal suffrage nearly a hundred years ago, I fail to see the correlation bwteen violent crime and democracy in the UK.


As your society descends culturally the higher values of that society decrease - the way we treat each other our respect for other citizens reduces. I never suggested it had anything to do with democracy - it is about the culture of a country. Is black on black violence more prevalent now than it was under whites?
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Re: RIP Hugo Chavez : Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:54 pm  
Mintball wrote:
Of course, under apartheid, that blonde broad might not have been shot to death by her crippled boyfriend.

Anything you fancy extrapolating from that?

While you're at it, perhaps levels of homophobia in, say, Jamaica, which result in rape and murder, would be removed if it was still ruled by the Empire that introduced the buggery laws?


On the face it the drugs he was taking to remain a public figure and maintain all the millions he was earning had an affect - roid-rage, perhaps if he had relied on natural talent she might still be alive?

In Jamaica?

Who knows all superstition - the truth is you have no more idea than I do?
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Re: RIP Hugo Chavez : Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:03 pm  
Sal Paradise wrote:
Rock God X wrote:
Do only black women get raped?


Given the blacks make up 80% of the population it doesn't take a huge leap of faith to suggest that the majority of those subjected to rape will be black women. Maybe you are going to pull a rabbit out of the hat to suggest otherwise.


Of course not, you blithering idiot, but to suggest that an increase in sexual crimes means that black people would have been better off under apartheid is just bonkers. What needs to happen is that black people continue to have equal rights AND that instances of rape are reduced. There was probably a lot less unemployment amongst black people when white people were allowed to keep slaves. Maybe we should have left well alone, eh?

And if rape is increasing, it's likely to be increasing for all women. Of course, if there are more black women there will be more black victims, but that's really not the point.
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