Re: The Blair legacy : Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:21 pm  

Traditional British culture is one of steady change. Some things hang around, like the monarchy and fish & chips. Some things don't, like white dog poo and casual racism.

Re: The Blair legacy : Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:38 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

Nope.
Absorbing bits of others, as has "traditionally" been the case, will continue rather than freezing at some fondly-imagined truly British point.

"... the country of long shadows on cricket grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers and pools fillers and, as George Orwell said, 'Old maids bicycling to holy communion through the morning mist'."

A charming vision, experienced by only a tiny minority of Britons and sitting totally outside the experience of the majority.

Re: The Blair legacy : Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:15 am  

Mintball wrote:

"... the country of long shadows on cricket grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers and pools fillers and, as George Orwell said, 'Old maids bicycling to holy communion through the morning mist'."

A charming vision, experienced by only a tiny minority of Britons and sitting totally outside the experience of the majority.

I don't even like warm beer. Or cricket. And old dears on bicycles are invariably oblivious to their surroundings, presenting a huge hazard to themselves and other road users. I do love dogs, though.

Re: The Blair legacy : Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:04 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

I don't even like warm beer. Or cricket.

Not surprised. You don't seem to like anything English.

Re: The Blair legacy : Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:05 pm  

Dally wrote:

Not surprised. You don't seem to like anything English.

Beer (i.e. like ale but flavoured with hops) was introduced to England by the Flemish and is hence a very good example of the parts of our culture that have been assimilated from elsewhere.
By the way, I don't like warm beer either, I like my pint of bitter at a cool (i.e.normal cellar) temperature.

Cricket is, on the other hand, very much an English product, even though the name is from the Dutch.

Re: The Blair legacy : Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:18 pm  

Mintball wrote:

"... the country of long shadows on cricket grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers and pools fillers and, as George Orwell said, 'Old maids bicycling to holy communion through the morning mist'."

A charming vision, experienced by only a tiny minority of Britons and sitting totally outside the experience of the majority.

Every shadow, 100% is a long shadow, this is due to our latitude. 100% of Britons experience them.

Cricket grounds? Surely, wherever you live, there's a nearby cricket field of one sort or another, and I don't believe that there's anyone in the country who could honestly claim never to have experienced the sight of cricket in the evening.

"Warm beer" is meant to indicate that the serving temperature of what you might call a traditional British ale is considerably less chilled than the ubiquitous "lagers" forriners are used to, so seems warm to them. I think such warm beer is universally available and I reckon a pretty high proportion of Britons have experienced it.

Green suburbs are where the majority of Britons live, and although some may be greener than others, it seems odd to suggest that green suburbs are out of the experience of anyone.

Dog lovers? No shortage of dogs on anywhere, from the toughest sink estates all the way to Buck Palace. You can't mean that.

Pools fillers? Well, the quote gives away its age there, but when the pools were in their heyday, I'd say that it was the working classes who played them more than any other, although it was widely popular and by no means restricted to them.

People cycling? Church buildings? Morning mist?

Re: The Blair legacy : Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:59 pm  

Dally wrote:

Not surprised. You don't seem to like anything English.

Thinking you're a bellend for suggesting that we should deport everyone who refuses to recite your Pledge of Britishness and 'not liking anything English' are whole worlds apart.

Re: The Blair legacy : Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:02 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

Thinking you're a bellend for suggesting that we should deport everyone who refuses to recite your Pledge of Britishness and 'not liking anything English' are whole worlds apart.

Stop the innuendo and say what you mean

Re: The Blair legacy : Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:03 pm  

Mintball wrote:

"... the country of long shadows on cricket grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers and pools fillers and, as George Orwell said, 'Old maids bicycling to holy communion through the morning mist'."

A charming vision, experienced by only a tiny minority of Britons and sitting totally outside the experience of the majority.

As I'm sure you already know, most of that quote is from John Major predicting that, despite being in the EU, Britain would still be describable in those (his) terms in another fifty years.
Whilst the "Britain" that he described was really more English than British, we do recognise the elements of his description, even though the total vision is really a myth.

If he'd mentioned the "Indian" takeaway that many of us crave more than a decent cup of tea upon returning from foreign parts, the rise and rise of the over-refrigerated pint of "lager" or the ubiquitous availability of olive oil or muesli he might have struck a more resonant chord.

Re: The Blair legacy : Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:49 pm  

To avoid setting up another thread, what do we all think of today's post-Blair Labour Party? The last few days have been a revelation. First we had Ed Balls with his amazingly pathetic ideas to solve the nation's crisis, namely cut winter fuel payments to a few well-off pensioners. Wow, that'll make all the difference. Then there was his vague "policy for growth" and "jobs for our young people". It's laughable. Although is it? If they take payments away from better off pensioners that will pave the way for the better off to argue against contributing as much in future, to everyone else's detriment. If such a policy were to be introducued the sensible (not a Labour strong point) way would be to continue to make payments but subject them to tax (to the extent they are not already) and the better off will then pay back a higher percentage without feeling unfairly treated. There would be savings in administrative costs too (burden shifted to the better off pensions via self-assessment).

Now we have the second Ed (the unelectable leader himself) saying he'll cap benefits, which as Paxo said presumably means that when the cap is reached no one gets any more money?

I have to ask myself whether, after the Militant Tendency infilitrated Labour in the '70s the Tory elite have now infiltrated Labour? We saw it with tuition fees - Labour (the self-professed "people's party" *) could get away with introducing them which paved the way for the Tories to hike them up. Now Labour is talking about divisively getting rid of universal benefits, of capping welfare, not ring-fencing NHS expenditure (after started privatising things when in office), etc. Things the Tories haven't had the nerve to do but would love to. In short, Labour are paving the way for the complete dismantling of everything their party ever did or created that was good.

Even if you were not to take my cynical view, surely Labour's leadership is showing the paucity of its thought and ambition? Firstly, they rail against the Tories policies in some of these areas then because opinion polls show people overwhelming in favour (at least conceptually - until the penny drops at their own feet) Tory policy they change to be "tougher" than the Tories. They are not leaders, they are followers completely out of touch with "the people" (in the majority sense). Not only that, they are still followers of an outdated Tory ideology. Why can't they frame a vision of the UK that is different, uplifting, credible and positive? Why are they in politics at all? Certainly not to "make a difference" to anyone other than themselves.

They are wet, out of touch and third rate. The Tories are the same, but second rate in that they at least lead the way in the inept ideology that manifest itself as modern British politics.


(*) But which "people"? This is the question that I've been asking for years - who does Labour represent?