Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 26, 2017 1:09 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:
I think the notion that cutting back on policing has directly resulted in this is flawed. France has had far more attacks than the UK and far worse they haven't cut their police numbers.


"Directly resulted" aren't the words I used.

Many experts called out the Home Secretary over the cuts to the police at the time and said we'd be a lot less safer as a result.

It's not too difficult to imagine that if you devote less resource into preventing terrorism and catching the perpetrators, then there's more chance of something like this happening.

If we had the 20k coppers that we have cut would Monday not have happened?? It didn't appear to stop 7/7

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 26, 2017 1:36 pm  

wire-quin wrote:

If we had the 20k coppers that we have cut would Monday not have happened?? It didn't appear to stop 7/7

Can't stop them all. It's logical though that the more counter terrorist officers and community engagment you have, the lower your risk of being successfully attacked. Otherwise, why not cut numbers back further and test out your theory?

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 26, 2017 1:36 pm  

Labour manifesto.
Keep winter fuel allowance, free student education . More money for nhs. Keep triple lock
Tory manifesto
Take away winter fuel allowance, scrap triple lock , oh and if you fall ill in old age we will take your house.
Corbyn has copied the trump style of agenda, promise everything, then in power find lots of reasons not to implement election promises. Example, build a wall across Mexico, can't do. Reopen coal mines can't do. Pull out of NATO can't do.
Don't know who is running mays election campaign , at the moment it's a total disaster.
In a nutshell labour are promising lots of free stuff, conservatives are taking money away from people. It's no wonder the polls are narrowing.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 26, 2017 1:58 pm  

brearley84 wrote:

not if they are on a watch list and under suspicion.

whats more important ?

The UKIP policy you were creaming yourself over was stopping everyone travelling to Libya. My question was in repsonse to that. The idea is as dumb as their supporters.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 26, 2017 2:29 pm  

Can't stop them all. It's logical though that the more counter terrorist officers and community engagment you have, the lower your risk of being successfully attacked. Otherwise, why not cut numbers back further and test out your theory?

Maybe they made a risk assessment of the numbers of coppers needed to meet the needs of the country and to fit within a set budget and ended up with what we have. I didn't say remove more or all coppers, im working on the assumption that the copper numbers are decided through some form of analysis. Policing like the military isn't just a numbers game it has many factors including improved technology which could result in reduced numbers

I will ask you again would Monday have happened if we had 20 k more coppers like we did when 7/7 happened.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 26, 2017 2:35 pm  

Exiled down south wrote:

Maybe they made a risk assessment of the numbers of coppers needed to meet the needs of the country and to fit within a set budget and ended up with what we have. I didn't say remove more or all coppers, im working on the assumption that the copper numbers are decided through some form of analysis. Policing like the military isn't just a numbers game it has many factors including improved technology which could result in reduced numbers

I will ask you again would Monday have happened if we had 20 k more coppers like we did when 7/7 happened.

You can't say with certainty that it would or wouldn't but by having extra police, it narrows the risk of it happening. With regards to 7/7, our security services were still catching up with the lack of intelligence gathered about potential targets/perpetrators. That is why, apart from Monday, there hasn't been anything come close in this country on the same scale as 7/7.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 26, 2017 2:35 pm  

DGM wrote:

"Directly resulted" aren't the words I used.

Many experts called out the Home Secretary over the cuts to the police at the time and said we'd be a lot less safer as a result.

It's not too difficult to imagine that if you devote less resource into preventing terrorism and catching the perpetrators, then there's more chance of something like this happening.

Why not have huge numbers of counter intelligence say another 50k - would it have prevented 2 attacks in the last 5 years - its a question of balance - given the numbers of attacks we have had I would say the balance is not far off. The US had huge intelligence resources it didn't stop 9/11.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 26, 2017 5:45 pm  

TrinityIHC wrote:

Otherwise, why not cut numbers back further and test out your theory?

Vote Tory and the theory will be tested - they've already committed to further cuts to the police.

My understanding from watching the coverage is that community policing is a big factor in getting early indicators that people are worthy of attention; if a regular, consistent police presence exists in Muslim communities, the people who live, work and study alongside these people feel more able to alert the police of early warning signs. We've got rid of swathes of community police officers under the Tory austerity measures - so it seems a reasonable conclusion that their ability to form relationships and pick up information has diminished.

When the Police Federation warned Mrs May of this when she was Home Secretary, she accused them of scaremongering...

Re: General Election 8th June : Sat May 27, 2017 7:35 am  

Tories simply say that NHS funding wiill be paid for by growth in the economy. Yet growth is negligible and falling, living standards are falling. So under their 'plan' (as they like to call their chaos) funding for all services will actually be cut.

Re: General Election 8th June : Sat May 27, 2017 8:19 am  

Exiled down south wrote:

I will ask you again would Monday have happened if we had 20 k more coppers like we did when 7/7 happened.

Thats like saying would my house have been burgled if I'd had increased security. Impossible to say but 20'000 is a lot of resources.

Approx 1300 trained firearms officers cut by Tories & 1000 soldiers deployed to our streets this week. Almost man for man.

Like Corbyn said the other day, austerity should stop at the door of the police station and the hospital gates.