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Re: Revolution : Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:59 pm  
JerryChicken wrote:
I just hope for your sake that Ian Duncan Smith doesn't read these forums because if he reads that he'll blow another fuse and dash to a Murdoch newspaper to absolutely deny your facts and replace the skivers and scroungers mantra back into the public domain.


The new NHS Party has been aiming them in his direction already. :D
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Re: Revolution : Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:03 pm  
Dead Man Walking wrote:
I get no housing benefits at all and I just get 25% off my Poll Tax.


If you mean you get a discount off your council tax because you are a single person, don't worry you will be next in line to have that "benefit" removed.

The same argument will apply to you. It will be if you don't want to pay the full council tax for a property of the band you live in, go and buy one in a lower band.
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Re: Revolution : Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:08 pm  
DaveO wrote:
If you mean you get a discount off your council tax because you are a single person, don't worry you will be next in line to have that "benefit" removed.

The same argument will apply to you. It will be if you don't want to pay the full council tax for a property of the band you live in, go and buy one in a lower band.


... or go and educate yourself or train to get one of the millions of better-paid jobs that are out there.
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Re: Revolution : Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:11 pm  
Dead Man Walking wrote:
Does anyone think that the people in this country would ever take part in one like the French and Russian Revolutions or are they too laid back and not bothered enough ?


Went to a SWP meeting last night. Apparently the revolution is imminent. Is that the same one that was imminent last time I went, 35 years ago, or a new one?
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Re: Revolution : Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:19 pm  
Dally wrote:
Went to a SWP meeting last night. Apparently the revolution is imminent ...


They're too busy smearing assorted members who say they were raped by party leaders to be organising anything else.
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Re: Revolution : Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:23 pm  
Dally wrote:
Went to a SWP meeting last night. Apparently the revolution is imminent. Is that the same one that was imminent last time I went, 35 years ago, or a new one?


Do they have SWP meetings in leafy Hertfordshire?

Well I never.............
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Current thoughts - Mago out or get running up them plantations, get fit or get rid.
Maybe a back up halfback, someone with a bit of experience on a short term deal.
Big tall strong running second rower, like a McMeekin or Sironen type back rower.

Re: Revolution : Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:37 pm  
Blimey – that's a lot of people in your family circle who come from broken families – did your parents all 'choose' that? Was your finance's mother irresponsible to have four children?


Your not talking to Kirkstaller here I know things don't work out but I wouldn't class every single parent family as a broken home, would you class someone with a deceased parent from a broken home? Probably not but then again a family with both parents there could be classed as a broken home depending on how the family life is


There is a shortage of jobs. This is a fact.

60% of benefits claimants are in work.

The 1:5 UK households claim housing benefit – and 89% of those are working households.

So let's dismiss the 'scoungers' and 'skivers' myth straight away. The majority of people on any benefits are in work; the vast majority of people on housing benefits are in work.


Ok

More reality: foodbanks are on the increase – massively on the increase. And this is the UK. So are legalised loansharks. As I have posted before, I was interviewing a debt counsellor a few weeks ago and I'm not even going to start repeating how scathing she was of these legalised loan sharks.


Agree

Your apparent desire that everyone should just go out and get 10 jobs – remember: there's not even one job for everyone of working age.

Many people are increasingly being tied to zero-hours contracts. They have to sit by the phone waiting to be called to a job. If they're unavailable, they'll lose their job. We are seeing an increasingly casualised workforce, with employers using all sorts of means to cut the wages and conditions of the staff on the ground – although never their own, for some strange reason that's hard to fathom
.

I was self employed from 2010 to 2012 until I got the job I'm in now and after 9 months on the agency I have worked hard enough not only to get taken on but to be offered a managers position.

Whilst self employed I had to go out and find the work, if I didnt get any work one week I wouldn't earn a penny so who pays my rent/mortgage for me?

And this is against a background of income inequality having risen for 30-plus years.

That income inequality – it is bad for the whole of a society. Less equal societies have more crime, more negative health issues, more addiction, less educational achievement – and much more. More equal societies are better across these things and more (if you wish to read about this in detail, read The Spirit Level).


Was the author of that book on Newsnight the other night? I'll give it a read, I agree with you on that front.



On belief – do you look back to what your own relatives went though and think it was A Good Thing? Do you feel nostalgia for it? Y'know: 'we suffered, so can they'?


I look back with pride that they had the substance to overcome hardship into the position they are in now, I don't expect anyone to suffer I want people to go out and earn their money, you may know people who are out of work and in hardship and want to work and base your judgemnet on those people, from my experience in working in social housing a lot of them didn't work some never have.


And let's do another myth while we're at it – his 'hard-working taxpayer' one. Most of us are fortunate enough to not have to work very hard. By comparison with a hospital cleaner or porter, I don't. I very much doubt you work anything like as hard as the grandfather you mention. Or the same hospital porter or cleaner.

Yet it seems that you – and plenty of others – actively want hard-working people in unsexy but essential jobs to suffer. Why? It's not good for society. It's not good for productivity. What is it good for?


No I never worked as hard as a miner but fitting 1 day central heating is hard graft, well paid hard graft but I went to college for 4 years on £50 a week apprenticeship and worked behind a bar 2 nights a week and at a bookies on a Saturday so that I could learn to become a gas engineer/plumber and earn decent money. Now I'm in a different job where I don't break a sweat, because after I came out of my time I stayed on at college for another 4 years funded by myself 2 nights a week after work to do my HNC/HND in Construction.

As I said, do you really look back at what various members of your own family went through and think everybody should experience a bit more like that?


I expect the government to provide the opportunity for people to work for a living and not have to rely on state handouts (obviously pensioners, disbabled and carers etc exempt)

If it weren't for the last Labour Governent god knows where I would have ended up, without their Asset Training Scheme I wouldn't have been able to have complete my apprenticeship which was funded by the Government at the cost of £50 a week payed to me which they invested well and now I don't need to rely on them.

Like I said, the benefits system needs overhauling massively to rid the idle from the taxpayers hard earned but first the opportunity to get into work and training must be implemented but somehow I can't see the Tories doing that.
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Re: Revolution : Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:33 pm  
post wrote:
If it weren't for the last Labour Governent god knows where I would have ended up, without their Asset Training Scheme I wouldn't have been able to have complete my apprenticeship which was funded by the Government at the cost of £50 a week payed to me which they invested well and now I don't need to rely on them.

Like I said, the benefits system needs overhauling massively to rid the idle from the taxpayers hard earned but first the opportunity to get into work and training must be implemented but somehow I can't see the Tories doing that.



The strange thing is that David Cameron has been speaking TODAY about that very thing, the opportunity to give every school leaver not gong into FE an apprenticeship of some description.

Of course he isn't mentioning how to fund any of this and I suspectr that he isn't going to offer any sort of help at all because he's also spoken of how private businesses have to help out, but it just goes to show that nothing is new in politics and the fact that he was visiting a training college today and had to think of something to say probably had nothing to do with it at all.


Of course - 'twas always done this way when I was a trainee back in the good old 1970s...
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Re: Revolution : Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:04 pm  
WIZEB wrote:
Do they have SWP meetings in leafy Hertfordshire?

Well I never.............


Whilst my comment was tongue in cheek - they do. I recall Titan going to one when he was a school at the behest of a friend and one of his teachers was there! He thought the whole bunch of them were deluded imbeciles (which they are). Mind you that meeting was in the seedy Metropolis of St Albans.
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Re: Revolution : Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:11 pm  
Dally wrote:
Whilst my comment was tongue in cheek - they do. [u]I recall Titan going to one when he was a school at the behest of a friend[/b] and one of his teachers was there! He thought the whole bunch of them were deluded imbeciles (which they are). Mind you that meeting was in the seedy Metropolis of St Albans.


I reckon there good have been some gays there as well?
I'm now starting to understand your need for questioning the lads sexuality.
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