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Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:43 am  
Kosh wrote:
Between 6.5% and 10% dependent on how much savings you have isn't it?

And technically not a tax but a one-off levy.

Still seems unjust to penalise savers for their banks being idiots.


And 9.9% is the upper one, IIRC.

From something I read, it seems that neither Schäuble nor the IMF particularly wanted to impose this on private savers, but the Nicosia government was determined. There's vast amounts going around about half the accounts in Cypriot banks being Russian – and at least some of that money being laundered – while the government in Nicosia apparently wants the Russians to give them some cash.

From the scant amount I know, it seems as though this solution is deliberately intended to be the one that upsets the Russians least.
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Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:45 pm  
Mintball wrote:
And 9.9% is the upper one, IIRC.

From something I read, it seems that neither Schäuble nor the IMF particularly wanted to impose this on private savers, but the Nicosia government was determined. There's vast amounts going around about half the accounts in Cypriot banks being Russian – and at least some of that money being laundered – while the government in Nicosia apparently wants the Russians to give them some cash.

From the scant amount I know, it seems as though this solution is deliberately intended to be the one that upsets the Russians least.


I think the way it ended up where it did is more to do with Germany than what the Nicosia government wanted.

The Cypriot banks lost a shed load of cash having to take a "haircut" on the Greek debt they held. So they needed bailing out.

The Germans take the view there is a lot of Russian money in the Cypriot banks much of which was laundered so there was no way they were going to allow a normal bail out using funds that would mostly be coming from German tax payers. They would be using German money to protect Russian criminals.

Without money coming in from a central (mainly German funded) bail out fund the Cypriot government had little choice but to do as it did.

The reason the IMF and others don't like it is this rips up two fundamental tenets of post Greek crisis banking. It's supposed to be bond holders who lend to banks who take the hit if the proverbial hits the fan and the deposit protection scheme is supposed to protect the ordinary person from banks getting in a mess. The logic is sophisticated financial institutions are in a position to assess the risk of lending to banks whereas it is unreasonable to expect ordinal people to do the same. So bank bond holders are supposed to be exposed to risk and ordinary people aren't.

What has happened is the exact opposite. The bond holders are not affected and the ordinary people are. And all this is to keep the German electorate happy so they aren't protecting deposits of laundered Russian money and it is a direct consequence of the terms they were instrumental in imposing on Greece that shafted the Cypriot banks in the process.

Doing this has basically undermined the new rules put in place designed to reassure people if a bailout is on the cards their money is safe, it will be bond holding institutions that take the hit not them and there is no need for a run on the banks deposits as we saw with Northern Rock.

It's quite amazing the Germans have been so short sighted because anyone in say Spain or Italy thinking their bank is about go belly up now has every reason for get their cash out. Exactly the opposite of how its all supposed to work.
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Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:01 pm  
It's a mess, without doubt.

Although frankly I can't imagine why anyone would want to have their own taxpayers bailing out the Russian mafia if there's a genuine belief that large pots of money in Cypriot banks are exactly that.
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Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:09 pm  
Mintball wrote:
It's a mess, without doubt.

Although frankly I can't imagine why anyone would want to have their own taxpayers bailing out the Russian mafia if there's a genuine belief that large pots of money in Cypriot banks are exactly that.


Well yes, if they think that is the case shouldn't the solution be to dream up some way to seize the funds and use that to bail the banks out? I mean they either know for certain its laundered money or they don't.

My guess is the reality is it is only assumed to be the case and they have next to no idea what is laundered money and what isn't. So unless you can prove the case you have no basis for going round and wrecking the two banking principles I mentioned in my previous post. You just have to take it on the chin and then set about dealing with money laundering as a separate exercise.
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Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:19 pm  
The Germans haven't got over Stalingrad. Simple as that.
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Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:55 pm  
Mintball wrote:
It's a mess, without doubt.

Although frankly I can't imagine why anyone would want to have their own taxpayers bailing out the Russian mafia if there's a genuine belief that large pots of money in Cypriot banks are exactly that.


Having read some more about it, it seems the idea behind this is the Cypriot government are really after a nice chunk of the billions on deposit there originating in Russia. The fact they are hitting everyone to a certain extent (latest rumour is the lower threshold will be 3% the higher one 12.5%) is a kind of fig leaf to show they just aren't seizing the money of one particular set of depositors.

I still think it is probably illegal. The ECHR has as one if its fundamental principles that no one shall be arbitrarily deprived of their property.
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