Brexit Anyone? : Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:14 pm  

I can’t believe there is no thread, so here goes.

As at 10.00pm on the 18th it doesn’t seem to be going too well, depending on where you stand of course.

Even if Dave gets his deal, I still worry that the “Out” campaign will win the day, if he comes back empty handed & lobbies for a British exit, it will be curtains for the forty year collaboration.

Momentous times ahead - thoughts?

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:19 pm  

Just shows that even in 2016 playing a nationalist argument is still ridiculously easy to gather feckwitted supporters around.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:42 pm  

Why would you worry about Brexit? The only benefactors are the politicians and big business - which gains via incessant new regulations strangling small business. For the sake of our basic freedom (already greatly eroded) and democracy we need to get out. Do I think we will - probably not because money talks and there is a huge amount of vested interest money going into "in" plus the stablished the, plus people tend not to vote for change. If we stay in the decline and impoverishment if this country, as geographically peripheral, is assured.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:00 am  

EU money supports some of the worst off areas in the UK, places which I'm pretty sure the Tories wouldn't give a sh*t about funding themselves hence they'd lose out big time.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:16 am  

shinymcshine wrote:

EU money supports some of the worst off areas in the UK, places which I'm pretty sure the Tories wouldn't give a sh*t about funding themselves hence they'd lose out big time.

Deary me:

1. The UK is a net contributor to the EU so all other things being equal we'd have more funds to support poorer areas.
2. The fact that "the Tories" don't care about such areas is a silly point. The Tories do not have a God given right to govern and the electorate decide on that. Indeed Labour was in power for a long time until recently and so these areas (which by implication Labour care about) should be booming. If they are not, maybe the electorates in those areas should ask why not.
3. Since joining the EU the SE has become the economic powerhouse purely because we are in the EU and the West and North declined as a direct result of being more peripheral (which would be infinitely worse if we are forced to join the Euro). The UK as a whole is peripheral and that's why the UK government is desperate for the City of London to have special protection. If doesn't get it that driver of the economy will go too.
4.Germany drives EU policy, in large part to the benefit of its own economy and manufacturing industry. Two generations of Britain's gave their lives to prevent that level of German domination of Europe and our younger generation and politicians are prepared to hand them that domination on a plate.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:25 am  

shinymcshine wrote:

EU money supports some of the worst off areas in the UK, places which I'm pretty sure the Tories wouldn't give a sh*t about funding themselves hence they'd lose out big time.

Where do you think the EU gets it's money from?

Quite why anyone would want to continue under the present terms to be a member of such an undemocratic, corrupt self serving organisation that cannot solve any of the really important issues like immigration, Greece, imbalance between it's northern and southern economies, its ongoing recession and decline.

Those that wish to remain in the EU are bombarding us with scare stories of what may happen if we leave but fail to acknowledge the equally scary reality of what will happen if we stay in. To argue that by staying in we can influence decision making has been shown to be a nonsense by history and latterly the PM's 9 month campaign to win his promised reforms. Faced with the really serious prospect that the EU could lose their 2nd largest banker you would have expected some real progress of very minor reforms if they valued the UK position.

The reality is we have no real influence now and we will have even less if we vote to remain in as we have blown our last chance of real reforms. Belgium & France have issued an ultimatum that is to be included in any agreement made this week which states that this is our last chance at winning any reforms so it will be a take it or leave it agreement with no future chance for change or future referendums.

The decision to remain in or to leave should not be just about the four small beer areas of the PM's negotiations. The big decision is do we want to become just a region in a German run federal state or do we wish to remain an independent self governing nation like Canada or Australia.

There will be pluses and minuses which ever way we vote but as one of the worlds largest economies (and one of the fastest growing) we will survive outside the EU very well and will continue to trade with the EU as they need to export to us even more than we need to sell to them. I would prefer to leave the EU and even continue to pay a tarriff for the benefit of trading with the EU and lose the pretence of any inside influence in return for a return of key sovereign powers to our elected parliament.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:56 am  

The situation of being in the EU but not EZ is untenable anyway. Much better to get out altogether. Not sure about this idea of paying tariffs to trade with the EU. If we have to, then just slap tariffs on German cars, etc. We'd have more to gain.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:24 pm  

Dally wrote:

Why would you worry about Brexit?

On a personal level I’m moving abroad (Europe) as soon as my damn house sells, & it appears the Brexit dilemma is affecting the pound / euro exchange rate, amongst other factors.

If we do pull out of Europe & the pound plummets it will seriously affect my future house purchase & my pension spending power.

On a less selfish note, I worry that workers’ rights will be eroded & the drawbridge will be pulled up especially regarding people seeking asylum.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:57 pm  

The Devil's Advocate wrote:

On a personal level I’m moving abroad (Europe) as soon as my damn house sells, & it appears the Brexit dilemma is affecting the pound / euro exchange rate, amongst other factors.

If we do pull out of Europe & the pound plummets it will seriously affect my future house purchase & my pension spending power.

On a less selfish note, I worry that workers’ rights will be eroded & the drawbridge will be pulled up especially regarding people seeking asylum.

Who's to say that if we Brexit you'll be allowed to move to Europe?

Free movement is a valuable thing that people (including our "expats" (don't dare call them immigrants) on the Costa del Sol) seem to avoid discussing even when they benefit themselves. The fact that I could go and work in any other member state, because it isn't all one way traffic, seems to escape people too.

It isn't as simple as just that but I would love the rest of the EU to require visas for Brits going on holiday and to kick out all those Daily Mail reading, ranting, hypocritical pensioners.

I'd be happy to see some serious reform of the EU overall that benefits each member state, but to go in unilaterally demanding changes is folly of the highest order. The fact that the ECJ, the ECHR and EU all seem to be conflated in the anti Europe rhetoric says a lot about those Brexiters too.

Will Cameron resign if he doesn't get his deal? We can but hope.

[Bullseye]

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:55 pm  

When you look at who's lining up in the out camp it makes it a simple decision.