Re: Next Tory Leader / Prime Minister : Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:22 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

The Conservatives’ mandate is very weak and the new leader taking it on second hand is not going to be in a strong position. His party won’t allow a deal, Parliament won’t allow no deal, a general election would be massively unpredictable with the Brexit Party and committed Remain parties taking votes from the Conservatives and Labour, and a second referendum would likely be close enough to not solve the problem. Stalemate.

Clumsy, ugly and potentially disasterous as it will be, maybe it needs someone like Johnson to bring it to a head, and see how it falls out. Or maybe he’ll just tie himself and us in even more Gordian knots.

We really have made a right pig’s ear of this.

I'm not disagreeing with much of that. Johnson doesn't give a toss; he lies to his family, lies to the populace & will be immune to any fall out. Seeing supposedly ethical colleagues lining up behind him to be seen to be supporting the victor & secure a prominent position in the new cabinet is vomit inducing. It reaffirms to me Brexit is all about forriners not democracy.

Re: Next Tory Leader / Prime Minister : Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:42 pm  

tigertot wrote:

I'm not disagreeing with much of that. Johnson doesn't give a toss; he lies to his family, lies to the populace & will be immune to any fall out. Seeing supposedly ethical colleagues lining up behind him to be seen to be supporting the victor & secure a prominent position in the new cabinet is vomit inducing. It reaffirms to me Brexit is all about forriners not democracy.

I have yet to meet a politician who doesn't lie to the populace when it suits, What Brexit has reaffirmed to me is that we don't live in an open democracy as some will advocate, we live in a parliamentary democracy, god help us with this shower what ever party.

Re: Next Tory Leader / Prime Minister : Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:50 pm  

POSTL wrote:

I have yet to meet a politician who doesn't lie to the populace when it suits,

I have to believe there are good people on all sides; far more on the left obviously....

What Brexit has reaffirmed to me is that we don't live in an open democracy as some will advocate, we live in a parliamentary democracy, god help us with this shower what ever party.

I agree with that & this is what the dischuffed & disenfranchised should be putting their frustrations into. Taking central power from London & giving it to the regions for all but national & international strategic decisions. Getting people to believe they can truly influence politics.

Re: Next Tory Leader / Prime Minister : Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:47 pm  

tigertot wrote:

Strange how silent the Brexiteers are over the threat to democracy when 0.0005% of the population are currently deciding who will 'lead' this country for the next few years.

Writing about the Labour prime minister Gordon Brown, who took over from Tony Blair without an election, this is what Boris Johnson said;

“It’s the arrogance. It’s the contempt. That’s what gets me. It’s Gordon Brown’s apparent belief that he can just trample on the democratic will of the British people. It’s at moments like this that I think the political world has gone mad, and I am alone in detecting the gigantic fraud.”

“They voted for Anthony Charles Lynton Blair to serve as their leader. They were at no stage invited to vote on whether Gordon Brown should be PM… They voted for Tony, and yet they now get Gordon, and a transition about as democratically proper as the transition from Claudius to Nero. It is a scandal. Why are we all conniving in this stitch-up? This is nothing less than a palace coup… with North Korean servility, the Labour Party has handed power over to the brooding Scottish power-maniac.”
“The extraordinary thing is that it looks as though he will now be in 10 Downing Street for three years, and without a mandate from the British people. No one elected Gordon Brown as Prime Minister”

“Gordon Brown could appease public indignation over that, and secure the democratic mandate he needs, by asking the public to vote at once on him, on the new EU treaty, and on the implications of the devolutionary settlement. Let’s have an election without delay.”

Re: Next Tory Leader / Prime Minister : Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:33 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

The Conservatives’ mandate is very weak and the new leader taking it on second hand is not going to be in a strong position. His party won’t allow a deal, Parliament won’t allow no deal, a general election would be massively unpredictable with the Brexit Party and committed Remain parties taking votes from the Conservatives and Labour, and a second referendum would likely be close enough to not solve the problem. Stalemate.

Clumsy, ugly and potentially disasterous as it will be, maybe it needs someone like Johnson to bring it to a head, and see how it falls out. Or maybe he’ll just tie himself and us in even more Gordian knots.

We really have made a right pig’s ear of this.

Couldn't agree more, add to that Labour won't allow a deal what ever as it might be as a way of getting a general election. It was said on Politics live today that the only thing Johnson is hoping to renegotiate with the EU is the backstop. So it looks like the status quo will continue.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Next Tory Leader / Prime Minister : Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:38 pm  

POSTL wrote:

Couldn't agree more, add to that Labour won't allow a deal what ever as it might be as a way of getting a general election. It was said on Politics live today that the only thing Johnson is hoping to renegotiate with the EU is the backstop. So it looks like the status quo will continue.

Until the 31st of October.

I don’t think the EU will allow another extension, at least anything more than a very short one to finalise something. So, one way or another, a choice will finally have to be made.

[Bullseye]

Re: Next Tory Leader / Prime Minister : Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:37 am  

The plan will be to allow Europe to let us go without an extension then blame them for all the resulting fallout. That'll be the only way they can spin it if it all goes wrong.

Re: Next Tory Leader / Prime Minister : Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:55 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

Until the 31st of October.

I don’t think the EU will allow another extension, at least anything more than a very short one to finalise something. So, one way or another, a choice will finally have to be made.

I think that you are wrong regarding a short extension, well kind of.
They would almost certainly allow a short technical extension.
However, for anything else they would more likely insist on a couple of years (at least).

No matter which side of the Brexit argument you are aligned to, Mrs May has played a truly shocking hand, which just about prevents any further short extension (other than a "technical" one).
With Boris almost certain to be in the big chair, I expect that he will demand a change to the "backstop" and tell the EU that without a change to this, we will go full steam ahead for a "no deal" on Halloween and right now, with how the country is and despite my personal preference of "remain", I believe that this is the only real option left.
The Tories will all fall into line and with the "help" of a few Labour "leave" MP's, this will see the first part of the Brexit bill over the line, just.
The alternative for the Tories would be a general election, which will ensure that there are very, very few, Tory rebels.

Re: Next Tory Leader / Prime Minister : Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:59 pm  

And as well as having no mandate from the people , one of these two jerks gets to become PM supported by a NI terrorist group.

Re: Next Tory Leader / Prime Minister : Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:47 pm  

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48721211 Move along....nothing to see here......given the old pussy grabber was elected to the white House, no doubt this "domestic" will endear him to the Tory faithful

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48721211 Move along....nothing to see here......given the old pussy grabber was elected to the white House, no doubt this "domestic" will endear him to the Tory faithful