Labour lose the plot - Again : Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:06 am  

Just when they get ahead in the polls and with a shambolic Tory government "running" the country.
Labour look like having a civil war - great job

[Mild Rover]

Re: Labour lose the plot - Again : Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:13 pm  

Instinctively, I lean towards Starmer’s position on this. Anti-semitism is absolutely appalling and unacceptable. I do feel that this is a little incongruous, given some of the stuff that the Conservative party Is able to shrug off, but it is too serious for moral relativism and whataboutery... like this. It needs to be addressed aggressively.

On the other hand, I think the denial of personal antisemitism compounding charges of antisemitism against someone is illogical. I mean, I am at the ‘ffs Jeremy, get your head out of your bum’ point, but if admitting something means you’re guilty and denying it means you’re worse then it is denying people the right to defend themselves. An argument often employed by bigots, I know.

Also, there being a real problem in the Labour Party and a real human cost, and it being exaggerated for political purposes are not mutually exclusive. Although, it is difficult to have much sympathy when there’s such a glaringly obvious solution.

Re: Labour lose the plot - Again : Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:42 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

Instinctively, I lean towards Starmer’s position on this. Anti-semitism is absolutely appalling and unacceptable. I do feel that this is a little incongruous, given some of the stuff that the Conservative party Is able to shrug off, but it is too serious for moral relativism and whataboutery... like this. It needs to be addressed aggressively.

On the other hand, I think the denial of personal antisemitism compounding charges of antisemitism against someone is illogical. I mean, I am at the ‘ffs Jeremy, get your head out of your bum’ point, but if admitting something means you’re guilty and denying it means you’re worse then it is denying people the right to defend themselves. An argument often employed by bigots, I know.

Also, there being a real problem in the Labour Party and a real human cost, and it being exaggerated for political purposes are not mutually exclusive. Although, it is difficult to have much sympathy when there’s such a glaringly obvious solution.

My take on this is 2 fold.

Firstly, Corbyn had a number of years to deal with this issue and let it fester like some ugly rash and as Leader of Labour he failed quite spectacularly to do so.
I realise that any ant Israeli sentiment is often used to point the finger at people and label them anti-Semitic, when it may well be the Israeli government or their actions that people are objecting to.
However, and far more importantly, Corbyn should be allowed to clear his name (assuming that he can) but, if, as former leader of the party, he need to do this in a way which will not further damage the party.
Labour have to put their individual differences aside and find a way to unite and defeat the Tory government.
Personal differences dont matter a jot in the grand scheme of things and they must put all their efforts to defeat the enemy and not each other.
I actually despair.

Re: Labour lose the plot - Again : Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:06 pm  

Left wing Labour activists have vilified Israel for as long as I can remember - certainly since the mid-1970s. That has often strayed into general anti-Jewish sentiment and words.

Re: Labour lose the plot - Again : Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:48 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Just when they get ahead in the polls and with a shambolic Tory government "running" the country.
Labour look like having a civil war - great job

It's an end game ploy.

Either act now to get rid of the stigma, either rightly or wrongly attached to Labour, or let it hang around like a bad smell.

I reckon Starmer is doing a lot of things right.

Re: Labour lose the plot - Again : Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:57 am  

Ovavoo wrote:

It's an end game ploy.

Either act now to get rid of the stigma, either rightly or wrongly attached to Labour, or let it hang around like a bad smell.

I reckon Starmer is doing a lot of things right.

I'm ok with Corbyn clearing his name but, if he wants a Labour government, he needs to see the bigger picture and do all that he can to not give ANY ammunition to the Tories.

He's had 5 years to deal with this and failed miserably.

If he'd rather screw Labour over and allow the Tories free run to another term in office, then he has his priorities wrong.

Re: Labour lose the plot - Again : Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:40 pm  

Nobody cares, nobody's looking. Who is Jeremy Corbyn?

Re: Labour lose the plot - Again : Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:51 pm  

I think it had to be done and if Starmer did nothing he would have been vilified by the press. Whatever you think of Corbyn he no longer generates the support in the population so in many ways Starmer can only gain from his actions.
I doubt Johnson would want to raise it because we are still waiting the 2016 pandemic preparation report, the islamaphobia report, the Priti Patel bullying report and the impact of Brexit report all of which have been withheld.

Re: Labour lose the plot - Again : Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:22 am  

Scarlet Pimpernell wrote:

I think it had to be done and if Starmer did nothing he would have been vilified by the press. Whatever you think of Corbyn he no longer generates the support in the population so in many ways Starmer can only gain from his actions.
I doubt Johnson would want to raise it because we are still waiting the 2016 pandemic preparation report, the islamaphobia report, the Priti Patel bullying report and the impact of Brexit report all of which have been withheld.

I agree.
The absolute hypocrisy of the Tories to even mention this when they have brushed their own enquiry into islamophobia, which was changed to a wider enquiry on racism within their own party.
They have promise this for many, many years, although, with Boris as PM, they will need to wait a bit longer or he would have to go.
Patel is just downright vicious.
She would have a firing squad on the cliffs of Dover

Re: Labour lose the plot - Again : Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:41 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Just when they get ahead in the polls and with a shambolic Tory government "running" the country.
Labour look like having a civil war - great job

The good thing about this current Tory shower is that you don't have to wait too long for them to try and outdo Labour in the infighting stakes. 50,000 Covid deaths and they're fighting over who gets to be the milk monitor.