I say [url=http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2619/242/76/568536040/n568536040_2775536_6725950.jpgthis[/url to your team in decline comments

It's clear that we are though. The Challenge cup game is where we can judge. If, as I expect, they beat us as comfortably as we did them last night it would appear our chances of silverwear over the next few seasons are slight.

But surely as was said last year the CC in a non-entity cup, worth nothing

You can bet your bottom dollar the Challenge Cup would go up in importance suddenly should Saints be knocked out in a couple of weeks. Leeds "Win when it matters" they will tell us.

Leeds last season commented the Challenge Cup is the one they wanted that year. They got beat and said the Challege Cup is of no importance, we want the superleague title.

I'm not sure that the outcome of a one off game will tell us whether we are in decline, or not. Leeds are probably the strongest team in the comp, losing to them on their own patch won't be that much of a disgrace.

I think after fifteen games, or so, will be the time we'll be able to judge more clearly. For me, the early indications this season are encouraging. We're a tad stronger in the pack this season, and no team will bully us out of a game. But when you have the likes of Long and Cunningham being on the wrong side of thirty, you're bound to be on a downward spiral somewhere along the line.

On a dry pitch, the Saints are almost unplayable in Super League. Nobody can match our speed and skill, not even Leeds. When it rains, our big strengths (speed at the ptb mainly) are taken away and Leeds get us in other areas. They are the more adaptable team IMO.

Over a season we'll struggle to match Leeds as our squad is small and the depth is covered by inexperienced youngsters. Whether we have the stamina to win the Grand Final or Challenge Cup, who knows. I just hope it's dry on April 5th.

I think this is a very accurate assessment and agree on every point raised.

This is proven in the last 2 seasons were we have the ability of winning one of the competitions but not both. The Challenge Cup and Grand Final is too close together now (about 7 weeks) and its proven very difficult to try and do the double.
However I think Leeds will find it tough this season, they already look a tired bunch and they like Saints have players coming to the end of there careers.

Fair assessment.

I understand where you're coming from but surely if they were more the adaptable team then they'd be our equal in the dry? But they don't seem to be. It seems to me that the two teams have different default playing styles and one (ours) is more effective in the dry while the other (theirs) is more effective in the mud. But they are the Rhinos, so I suppose you'd expect that.

I wonder if Mr Potter can devise an alternative wet weather style of play for Saints? We'd just be unbeatable if he did.

Also backed by the fact that we are not a "big physical team". Our pack matched up against the other top 4/5 packs would look small - I'm not saying we don't make that up in skill and technique - however, in bad conditions, good little uns tend to get done by good big uns. Leeds' pack is considerable more sizaeble than ours and they are complinented by nippy backs.

I think we need to look at this as we go forward. Tony P is a good addition in this area - size and skill shown nicely so far - perhaps future recruitment may look to add to the size element of the sqaud further? I could see us adding a new Maurie in the next 18months (rough South Sea Islander gem to polish up) and if Lyon wasn't available for a centre spot, a beast in the mould of Kev Iro would be a possible alternative? I don't want us to turn into Bratfut but I do want us to be a flexible team that can win in all conditions.

I don't think that's fair on Leeds. They're a very skillful side.

Blobby is saying that in the dry our attack is exceptional, but Leeds have a more rounded game that allows them to adapt to varying conditions more easily than we can, and I think he's right.